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[Music]

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[Applause]

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this is somewhere in the skies Branzburg

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[Music]

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was a terrifying experience I thought

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was gonna jail for murder

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that day you know we're a little behind

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so we worked until was starting to get

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dark we loaded up the equipment and

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hadn't driven very far when we caught

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glimmers of this glow coming through the

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tree as he got closer I heard the sound

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one of the guy said you feel that I

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really panicked then I told him get the

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hell out of here didn't come directly to

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me it came to it a deputy sheriff three

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I was volunteered right away to tell him

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what had happened

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I'm sheriff glass we definitely didn't

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believe it he says that we better be

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certain so he's getting a lot of travel

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when we went to search the next day they

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split us up and the whole time the

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deputies asked me you know if you just

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tell us where the body is we can all go

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home get this over with we're talking

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about a hundred people combing through

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the wooded area nothing turns up

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all week long I've been hearing they're

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gonna set it up to make you guys look

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guilty or a rough-looking bunch then if

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some of us have been in trouble with the

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law before you know ever going to come

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out of that jailhouse Travis I'm back I

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need help when I did hear that he had

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been returned it was almost as

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unbelievable as the original thing I

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understand my mama says I told you we

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didn't kill people were desperate to

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explain it away why are you sticking up

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with Travis for all this time you know

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this really didn't happen

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what happened to travis after we took

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off in that truck I can't tell you I

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hated Travis for a long time after this

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my whole world just tore up but I

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believed every word Travis said about it

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he's never lied to me about nothing it's

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a net negative we lost our jobs in the

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immediate aftermath and now you're not

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able to talk about it with anyone

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because you know that they're gonna

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laugh at you they don't look at you like

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you're crazy if you don't come out and

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tell your story somebody else is gonna

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tell it for you

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there's a degree of responsibility

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certainly I have to accept the bad if I

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can direct what's happened in a way that

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I can make something good happen in the

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world I'm looking for it welcome to

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somewhere in the skies I'm your host

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Ryan Sprague by the time you hear this

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I'll be on the road traveling to Nova

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Scotia where I'll be speaking at the

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esoteric on a collection of researchers

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exploring every weird and esoteric thing

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you can possibly think of so before we

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get there this week's main interview I

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want to bring on one of the other

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speakers and a good friend of mine Greg

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Bishop to give everyone a sneak peak and

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what to expect at the esoteric on Greg

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Bishop as a fellow speaker I wanted to

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bring you on today to give listeners a

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little sneak peek at the lineup for the

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esoteric on taking place on May 19th and

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20th in Halifax Nova Scotia thank you so

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much man for hopping on today with me

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ain't no problem just about any time I

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don't have a schedule I've seen the

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photos yeah for sure you're living that

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Kerouac life I love it man

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well sort of yeah I you got to schedule

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it but at least I've got the freedom to

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schedule it which is way more important

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absolutely

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I love anyone who has the opportunity to

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just to not be forced to deadlines at a

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constant rate and I think that's what

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what makes you the kind of researcher

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you are and when you have something to

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say you're gonna come out and say it so

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I love that about you man and that's why

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I wanted to bring you on today because

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you and I are both going to be speaking

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at the esoteric on and a bunch of other

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people who I kinda wanted to go over

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today little sneak peek for our audience

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um so first I guess we should start with

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our host the guy who put this all

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together who invited all of us to Nova

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Scotia and that's Paul Kimball he's

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gonna be speaking with Holly Stevens his

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partner in crime in a talk titled

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haunted ghosts demons and shadow people

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in Nova Scotia so for those who don't

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know Paul and Holly have a TV show in

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Canada called haunted so I'm assuming

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that's what this is going to be an

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examination maybe of some of their

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investigations so yeah what do you think

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about this one man I can't wait to hear

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more because as you and I both know we

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were both there when stuff was happening

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when they were shooting like extra stuff

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for an episode yeah and that's the only

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time I've ever been on some kind of what

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you might call a ghost hunt which is

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yeah I've been doing that I've done that

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maybe five times but that's the only

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time where something happened and like

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five things happened yeah me too me that

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was my first time yeah where things were

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not like well that could have been

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something else all of it could have been

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something else but it was definitely in

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the decision I can't explain this away

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easily category and a couple of them

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were I can't explain this away at all

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category which was what's great I mean

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it didn't didn't make me nervous it it

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made me excited actually when things

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happen not like oh boy and you know

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throw my hands over scream like scooby

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Doo or whatever the hell I would just

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think that was really cool and that's

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what happens on some of the shows

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obviously they edit them down so that

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you know it turns into a narrative and

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things happen a little bit quicker and

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all that but for it you know minute by

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minute or hour for hour or whatever I

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think they've got more genuine stuff

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happening on the

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show than just about anyone and they

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don't do this kind of like what was that

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and the night vision and running around

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or teasing the ghosts or anything like

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that really it's actually very Canadian

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Paul's done things like if there are any

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Nazi ghosts here please make yourselves

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known in a very polite Canadian way it's

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not a joke to you go to the airport and

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the guards and all that security people

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are very polite it's a cliche but it's

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it's kind of frightening ly true yeah

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cliches are cliches for a reason I

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always think there's nothing wrong with

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that and you know in terms of this yeah

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this is why I love when we get invited

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to these things up north it's it's a

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whole different universe it's almost a

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time warp in some ways for people like

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you and I who live in LA or you know I

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lived in New York for a long time you

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get a really interesting breed of people

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from it's a melting pot and that's good

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and sometimes it's just hectic as all

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hell so to get a chance to go to Canada

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Halifax and specific is a vacation but

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it's also just such a rewarding

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experience it's a beautiful place with

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some some really interesting ghosts I'm

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sure ghosts and people and it's a

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completely different environment than

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I've grown up with and are used to my

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friend from Montreal told me she said

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when you come here to visit but I'm

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sorry but my apartment is sweltering

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it's horrible so maybe we just won't we

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won't go to my place we'll just go out

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and eat or whatever and I thought and I

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looked at the weather report the high

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was like 72 degrees right oh god that's

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perfect yeah that's weather for me no

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not even sure it's it's kind of like

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that's kind of yeah I'm so got my jeans

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on and maybe a long-sleeve shirt a

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jacket yeah your friends are like oh god

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it's sweltering it's horrible

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that was my big my biggest adaptation

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from moving from the east coast to the

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west coast is uh well I moved in the

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middle of summer when the heat wave

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struck here in LA and I I thought Greg

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is this how it's gonna be for the next

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two years I'm gonna be here and thank

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God it wasn't but yeah it is a big shift

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for sure that's just the summer a place

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there's no humidity but if

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if you go outside in the summer it's

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like being sitting in a furnace yes you

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know it gets up - it gets up over up hmm

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over a hundred that starts bothering

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anything up to 100 doesn't bother me

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that much over a hundred I start getting

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slightly irritated yeah that's that's

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when the AC kicks in brother for sure

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let's see who do we got next we got Oh

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Micah Hank's we got Micah Hank's talking

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about his book magic mysticism and the

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molecule we both saw this talk at the

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liverpool event that we are at in this

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explores magical practices mystical

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states and out-of-body encounters and

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altered consciousness Wow

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this one blew my mind I I didn't know I

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hadn't read Micah's book about all this

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and I was blown away when I heard this

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last year where you were you attended

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that talk as well right yeah we had

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talked about this I'd read some of his

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book and also we talked on my show

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Oh God he was on like five years ago on

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my show and so I just saw the evolution

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of his thinking - sort of a unified

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field of if our minds can do these

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things you know why are we missing out

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on you know in things that we know about

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like you know psychedelics and altered

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states why are we not comparing this to

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an altered state of an extraordinary

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experience and Micah does a good job of

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pointing that out pointing out the

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parallels and what me might be able to

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do with that yeah so Micah's is gonna be

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great I know the idea of like inducing a

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extraordinary experience is alluring to

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me so I look forward to that but yeah

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Tim Tim banal I've been all of America

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Fame we all know him we all love him

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he's gonna be talking about the flat

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earthers oh my god man this is gonna be

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epic

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I sure it'll be like an analysis of the

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pseudoscience the claims and why it's

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coming back now yeah yeah well he I work

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with him occasionally on coasts not like

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with him but we you know we're kind of

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doing the same things in different areas

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I got his old job

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the people don't Wayne I know that but

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he said you know he's like oh dude you

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know all these you know that the

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craziest thing that's happened the last

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years he's flat earther people there's

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Tim's voice but he saw it is like this

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huge trend and he was just as fabric

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as we are it's like what how is this big

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now he's got since he's you know got his

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finger on the news since he does a lot

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of that for coasts and he's interviewed

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tons of people I don't think he's ever

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had a flat earther on his show that ever

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had went on Ben all of America but he

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said this is the craziest biggest thing

268
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that's come down the pike in the last

269
00:10:36,540 --> 00:10:33,820
year or two and so he's really dug into

270
00:10:38,670 --> 00:10:36,550
the the the world of these people that

271
00:10:40,590 --> 00:10:38,680
their their their their their groups

272
00:10:42,420 --> 00:10:40,600
their their meetings what they think

273
00:10:44,550 --> 00:10:42,430
famous people who are into it and it's

274
00:10:46,740 --> 00:10:44,560
just kind of it's it's kind of

275
00:10:48,990 --> 00:10:46,750
jaw-dropping to me that people would

276
00:10:50,430 --> 00:10:49,000
even believe this but Tim's gonna tell

277
00:10:52,380 --> 00:10:50,440
us why they do what they're talking

278
00:10:55,380 --> 00:10:52,390
about and where this where this movement

279
00:11:00,750 --> 00:10:55,390
might be going it's it's it's crazy it's

280
00:11:03,450 --> 00:11:00,760
not all over the place yeah exactly all

281
00:11:08,490 --> 00:11:03,460
over the the round earth as it were

282
00:11:11,670 --> 00:11:08,500
moving on we have we have Aaron goiás

283
00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:11,680
presenting a talk titled reduce reuse

284
00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:15,130
recycle the past and future evolution of

285
00:11:20,430 --> 00:11:18,370
UFO narratives this is gonna be awesome

286
00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:20,440
and I've been listening to Aaron for a

287
00:11:25,110 --> 00:11:22,930
while now I read a couple of his books

288
00:11:26,850 --> 00:11:25,120
yeah so he's gonna be talking all about

289
00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:26,860
the evolution of the UFO topic you know

290
00:11:33,540 --> 00:11:29,650
all the forms it takes why some topics

291
00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:33,550
within UFO studies research come to the

292
00:11:37,620 --> 00:11:35,650
forefront and then go back into the

293
00:11:40,050 --> 00:11:37,630
fringe every now and again it's gonna be

294
00:11:43,110 --> 00:11:40,060
really interesting almost like a I guess

295
00:11:44,460 --> 00:11:43,120
like a sociological examination yeah do

296
00:11:46,830 --> 00:11:44,470
you know anything about this one have

297
00:11:48,780 --> 00:11:46,840
you ever heard Aaron talk about this no

298
00:11:51,540 --> 00:11:48,790
this is a brand new talk co-op which

299
00:11:52,890 --> 00:11:51,550
kind of amazes me that he's presenting

300
00:11:56,670 --> 00:11:52,900
this great brand-new talk and I think

301
00:11:58,530 --> 00:11:56,680
it's obviously based on his saucer life

302
00:12:01,890 --> 00:11:58,540
podcast which makes me insanely jealous

303
00:12:05,370 --> 00:12:01,900
because it's so well done it's gorgeous

304
00:12:08,130 --> 00:12:05,380
absolutely I mean talk about people from

305
00:12:11,550 --> 00:12:08,140
NPR's production staff and then have

306
00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:11,560
them just talk about UFO a match made in

307
00:12:14,580 --> 00:12:12,330
heaven

308
00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:14,590
absolutely yeah so I'm really looking

309
00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:16,450
forward to Aaron's then we have Walter

310
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:19,450
Bosley now as far as I know he's kind of

311
00:12:23,310 --> 00:12:21,010
keeping us in the dark about what he's

312
00:12:24,660 --> 00:12:23,320
gonna be talking about I have no doubt

313
00:12:26,340 --> 00:12:24,670
whatever it is it's going to be

314
00:12:28,980 --> 00:12:26,350
something nobody's really thought about

315
00:12:30,420 --> 00:12:28,990
before if we know this guy and what he's

316
00:12:32,670 --> 00:12:30,430
done before do you have any predictions

317
00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:32,680
on what he might be talking about I

318
00:12:36,510 --> 00:12:34,090
think they'll probably talking about his

319
00:12:40,850 --> 00:12:36,520
Empire of the wheel research which is a

320
00:12:45,030 --> 00:12:40,860
what he's done as has uncovered a

321
00:12:49,140 --> 00:12:45,040
history of a cult ritual occult rituals

322
00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:49,150
occult it's and possible ritual murders

323
00:12:54,690 --> 00:12:51,010
in Southern California over a period

324
00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:54,700
spanning from the 19th century up to now

325
00:12:58,260 --> 00:12:56,130
actually Wow

326
00:13:00,270 --> 00:12:58,270
he's been working on this further

327
00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:00,280
probably like the past six or eight

328
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:02,530
years or more he took me on a tour of

329
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:05,050
some of his spots like some of those

330
00:13:08,370 --> 00:13:06,490
spots in Southern California where he

331
00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:08,380
said you know these are significant

332
00:13:14,910 --> 00:13:11,290
places in my storyline you know he took

333
00:13:16,620 --> 00:13:14,920
me to a Cora stone quarry where he said

334
00:13:18,990 --> 00:13:16,630
there was possibly a ritual murder or a

335
00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:19,000
body was discovered there he took me to

336
00:13:23,820 --> 00:13:21,730
a house where two children were found

337
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:23,830
murdered poisoned in the early 20th

338
00:13:29,300 --> 00:13:26,410
century it's it's a fascinating story oh

339
00:13:31,170 --> 00:13:29,310
my god so a few times about that and I

340
00:13:32,730 --> 00:13:31,180
think that's probably what he'll be

341
00:13:36,540 --> 00:13:32,740
talking about because it's not listed on

342
00:13:38,790 --> 00:13:36,550
the website yet right and I mean he just

343
00:13:42,300 --> 00:13:38,800
announced a couple days ago too that

344
00:13:43,710 --> 00:13:42,310
this entire emperor of the wheel work

345
00:13:46,620 --> 00:13:43,720
that he's been doing has been optioned

346
00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:46,630
for a television series so fingers

347
00:13:50,790 --> 00:13:48,850
crossed that happens that's definitely

348
00:13:54,150 --> 00:13:50,800
something I'd want to check out being a

349
00:13:56,550 --> 00:13:54,160
huge binge watching fan myself falling

350
00:13:58,830 --> 00:13:56,560
victim to that so yeah we got to sort of

351
00:14:00,750 --> 00:13:58,840
cap this with um before we get to your

352
00:14:03,110 --> 00:14:00,760
talk with the man of the hour the

353
00:14:06,660 --> 00:14:03,120
keynote speaker mr. Stanton T Friedman

354
00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:06,670
giving apparently his last lecture ever

355
00:14:11,790 --> 00:14:08,890
which was also his first lecture ever

356
00:14:13,950 --> 00:14:11,800
and that's flying saucers are real it's

357
00:14:17,580 --> 00:14:13,960
come full circle man he's retiring from

358
00:14:19,020 --> 00:14:17,590
the lecturing circuit and yeah I look

359
00:14:21,300 --> 00:14:19,030
forward to seeing this finally I've

360
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:21,310
never heard it I've never seen it have

361
00:14:25,500 --> 00:14:23,530
you ever heard him give this talk no

362
00:14:27,210 --> 00:14:25,510
I've never done this I came in too late

363
00:14:30,030 --> 00:14:27,220
to give him this I'm not that old I

364
00:14:32,430 --> 00:14:30,040
think they have here that to have them

365
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:32,440
present this actual talk I'm sure it's

366
00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:33,850
like you know I'm sure there's a lot of

367
00:14:36,530 --> 00:14:35,410
blacked out documents in it because

368
00:14:38,030 --> 00:14:36,540
that's a spread

369
00:14:39,650 --> 00:14:38,040
but I'd like to hear you know from the

370
00:14:40,820 --> 00:14:39,660
horse's mouth from Stan you know what

371
00:14:42,079 --> 00:14:40,830
and I'm sure he's gonna go over it's

372
00:14:43,970 --> 00:14:42,089
like well this is what happened to me

373
00:14:45,530 --> 00:14:43,980
this I'm he's not gonna give the verbage

374
00:14:48,110 --> 00:14:45,540
him talk he doesn't have to and I don't

375
00:14:50,269 --> 00:14:48,120
think well but it's that you know just

376
00:14:53,030 --> 00:14:50,279
for that just to see Stan Freedman do is

377
00:14:54,710 --> 00:14:53,040
his final lecture after what forty

378
00:14:55,130 --> 00:14:54,720
something years I think it's more than

379
00:14:58,430 --> 00:14:55,140
that

380
00:15:00,199 --> 00:14:58,440
yeah years almost up to fifty years now

381
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:00,209
at this point yeah and like you said

382
00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:02,130
it's like the dude knows this thing from

383
00:15:05,570 --> 00:15:03,570
front to back he doesn't need a

384
00:15:08,750 --> 00:15:05,580
PowerPoint he doesn't need a script

385
00:15:10,220 --> 00:15:08,760
and he's entertaining as hell people do

386
00:15:12,170 --> 00:15:10,230
not agree with him on a lot of things

387
00:15:15,050 --> 00:15:12,180
but that doesn't matter he's it

388
00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:15,060
he's a stalwart he's a legend he's

389
00:15:18,710 --> 00:15:16,770
uncovered incredible amounts of

390
00:15:20,510 --> 00:15:18,720
information you know you got to respect

391
00:15:21,949 --> 00:15:20,520
that plus he's a nice guy I mean I've

392
00:15:22,699 --> 00:15:21,959
talked to him extensively and he's

393
00:15:25,310 --> 00:15:22,709
really nice

394
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:25,320
I interviewed him for my show finally

395
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:27,810
and UFO Congress in like two weeks later

396
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:30,810
he said I'm retiring everybody wanted to

397
00:15:33,710 --> 00:15:32,010
interview when they started interviewing

398
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:33,720
him about stuff that I wanted to talk

399
00:15:37,190 --> 00:15:35,730
about like well what's what what's been

400
00:15:39,050 --> 00:15:37,200
going on in your life what was your life

401
00:15:40,190 --> 00:15:39,060
like but that's what I asked him about

402
00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:40,200
in the interview and then everybody else

403
00:15:44,449 --> 00:15:41,970
did now I kind of feel like I don't want

404
00:15:50,060 --> 00:15:44,459
to run the interview no no I might be

405
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:50,070
one of those culprits the funny thing is

406
00:15:54,019 --> 00:15:51,690
did you notice this in the interview I

407
00:15:56,410 --> 00:15:54,029
tried to get him off the UFO subject and

408
00:15:59,660 --> 00:15:56,420
he would just bring it right back yeah

409
00:16:04,100 --> 00:15:59,670
yeah man it's like clockwork with him it

410
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:04,110
rings joyed actually it's like Stan what

411
00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:05,370
happened you know what were you working

412
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:06,510
in 1952

413
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:08,370
well actually I was doing rockets and

414
00:16:12,530 --> 00:16:10,890
nuclear rockets would let it Lenny do by

415
00:16:16,010 --> 00:16:12,540
UFO work which is very interesting you

416
00:16:19,430 --> 00:16:16,020
know you just always bring it back he's

417
00:16:22,460 --> 00:16:19,440
a professional through and through well

418
00:16:26,030 --> 00:16:22,470
let's let's cap this off man we have you

419
00:16:28,730 --> 00:16:26,040
giving your talk on UFOs the co-creation

420
00:16:32,090 --> 00:16:28,740
hypothesis I've seen this lecture done

421
00:16:35,630 --> 00:16:32,100
it was so awesome you got a standing

422
00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:35,640
ovation at the conference you did I saw

423
00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:38,370
it I saw it so give us the elevator

424
00:16:42,530 --> 00:16:40,170
pitch I don't remember that maybe I

425
00:16:44,810 --> 00:16:42,540
couldn't see it yeah it's pretty dark in

426
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:44,820
there man but I I was standing I can

427
00:16:49,010 --> 00:16:46,890
tell you that much well thank you I

428
00:16:49,700 --> 00:16:49,020
never knew that I would have told you

429
00:16:53,610 --> 00:16:49,710
hey

430
00:16:55,470 --> 00:16:53,620
I guess I didn't see it I don't know I

431
00:16:58,410 --> 00:16:55,480
don't even remember that that happening

432
00:17:01,260 --> 00:16:58,420
but thank you brother so you tell us

433
00:17:03,660 --> 00:17:01,270
what the co-creation hypothesis is I

434
00:17:05,790 --> 00:17:03,670
mean I know that's a very broad question

435
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:05,800
but what are you gonna be sharing with

436
00:17:11,420 --> 00:17:08,770
the audience with this one well that

437
00:17:15,270 --> 00:17:11,430
there's kind of two parts of my

438
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:15,280
co-creation one is what does the human

439
00:17:18,750 --> 00:17:17,050
mind do when it is confronted with

440
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:18,760
something it's extraordinary and

441
00:17:24,540 --> 00:17:21,250
unexpected what is the psychology behind

442
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:24,550
it what is the new neurological basis of

443
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:27,250
a traumatic experience how does memory

444
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:30,330
work how does your visual system work

445
00:17:34,950 --> 00:17:32,530
how do you you know how do you tell

446
00:17:37,830 --> 00:17:34,960
stories about things how do how does all

447
00:17:41,490 --> 00:17:37,840
this work because if we don't you know

448
00:17:43,530 --> 00:17:41,500
we don't discover how our the system the

449
00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:43,540
human body the instrument that is that

450
00:17:48,060 --> 00:17:46,480
is experienced in this works if we don't

451
00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:48,070
know how it processes the information

452
00:17:53,550 --> 00:17:50,050
how can we be sure that the information

453
00:17:55,260 --> 00:17:53,560
it was gathering was what it says it is

454
00:17:58,710 --> 00:17:55,270
you know what I mean

455
00:18:02,430 --> 00:17:58,720
we can't because you know 99.9% of the

456
00:18:05,580 --> 00:18:02,440
time UFO encounters are by people just

457
00:18:07,470 --> 00:18:05,590
seeing something and occasionally if

458
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:07,480
we're really lucky there's radar or

459
00:18:11,580 --> 00:18:09,730
photos or something like that but for

460
00:18:15,180 --> 00:18:11,590
most of the time we don't really know

461
00:18:16,530 --> 00:18:15,190
what goes on and people can say well

462
00:18:18,390 --> 00:18:16,540
there's pictures that show something's

463
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:18,400
going on or radar returns and all that

464
00:18:24,950 --> 00:18:21,970
but if you look at the body of UFO

465
00:18:27,750 --> 00:18:24,960
literature it's not standardized it's

466
00:18:29,670 --> 00:18:27,760
not nearly as standardized as you think

467
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:29,680
it would be and there's a lot of things

468
00:18:34,230 --> 00:18:32,170
associated with it with people's belief

469
00:18:36,210 --> 00:18:34,240
systems getting affected and their

470
00:18:39,420 --> 00:18:36,220
emotional life and their personal lives

471
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:39,430
getting affected and you know and and

472
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:41,530
then what they report it's it goes all

473
00:18:45,180 --> 00:18:43,330
over the map and I think this indicates

474
00:18:49,730 --> 00:18:45,190
that there's something going on in our

475
00:18:52,530 --> 00:18:49,740
minds that makes the experience

476
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:52,540
something we can handle and remember and

477
00:18:59,160 --> 00:18:56,170
and and refer to rather than what

478
00:19:00,960 --> 00:18:59,170
actually happened I don't know you know

479
00:19:02,730 --> 00:19:00,970
for instance if we got somebody they're

480
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:02,740
seeing something a close encounter like

481
00:19:06,540 --> 00:19:04,690
you know 500 feet or less if there's a

482
00:19:08,940 --> 00:19:06,550
camera sitting there like 200 feet away

483
00:19:11,430 --> 00:19:08,950
at an angle showing them and whatever

484
00:19:13,710 --> 00:19:11,440
they're looking at I've got a very

485
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:13,720
strong suspicion that the camera is not

486
00:19:18,780 --> 00:19:14,770
gonna see what they see

487
00:19:20,190 --> 00:19:18,790
yeah or they remember actually that's

488
00:19:22,530 --> 00:19:20,200
the more important part what you know

489
00:19:24,540 --> 00:19:22,540
how did they remember what that was so

490
00:19:25,830 --> 00:19:24,550
that that's very interesting to me and

491
00:19:27,900 --> 00:19:25,840
then the second part of the lecture I

492
00:19:29,460 --> 00:19:27,910
talked about something that's really

493
00:19:34,020 --> 00:19:29,470
interesting to me right now which is

494
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:34,030
information theory that well the

495
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:36,010
information theory I'm interested in is

496
00:19:43,500 --> 00:19:39,610
the the theory that reality at its very

497
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:43,510
base is not particles and and is not

498
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:46,090
atoms and particles and quarks and you

499
00:19:50,330 --> 00:19:47,530
know subatomic particles it's

500
00:19:53,250 --> 00:19:50,340
information and the information is

501
00:19:55,020 --> 00:19:53,260
formed into the physical universe by our

502
00:19:57,810 --> 00:19:55,030
interaction with it now this sounds

503
00:20:00,510 --> 00:19:57,820
stupid and spooky and new aging it does

504
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:00,520
but the fact that that what really

505
00:20:04,799 --> 00:20:02,890
floored me was that a Nobel laureate and

506
00:20:06,780 --> 00:20:04,809
somebody was fairly conservative John

507
00:20:10,260 --> 00:20:06,790
Archibald wheeler was wrestling with

508
00:20:12,930 --> 00:20:10,270
this exact problem before he died in I

509
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:12,940
think what was it the early 2000s or

510
00:20:18,660 --> 00:20:15,730
maybe mid 2000s before 2010 one of his

511
00:20:20,460 --> 00:20:18,670
last books in the 1990s he proposed that

512
00:20:23,820 --> 00:20:20,470
he put prose something called the

513
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:23,830
anthropomorphic principle in physics I

514
00:20:28,799 --> 00:20:25,330
don't I don't think I'm getting the name

515
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:28,809
right I'll get it right in the talk his

516
00:20:35,580 --> 00:20:32,850
idea was that reality as we see it is a

517
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:35,590
result of a long series of yes or no

518
00:20:44,700 --> 00:20:41,050
questions but that has as its base pure

519
00:20:46,740 --> 00:20:44,710
information and that's everything

520
00:20:48,030 --> 00:20:46,750
like I said everything we see our

521
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:48,040
physical universe everything that

522
00:20:53,430 --> 00:20:50,890
happens in it is as a result is a result

523
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:53,440
of us experiencing it physical laws

524
00:21:00,720 --> 00:20:56,170
everything that sounds completely wacky

525
00:21:03,150 --> 00:21:00,730
and way out and doesn't make any sense

526
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:03,160
and it sounds almost worse than quantum

527
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:07,090
theory but if you think about it and

528
00:21:12,810 --> 00:21:09,970
somebody way smarter than me once told

529
00:21:16,470 --> 00:21:12,820
me if if you think of the UFO and igg MA

530
00:21:18,419 --> 00:21:16,480
in a physical universe it is

531
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:18,429
it is improbable it's highly improbable

532
00:21:22,260 --> 00:21:20,530
it's hard to imagine some of this stuff

533
00:21:25,380 --> 00:21:22,270
being real but if you think of it in an

534
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:25,390
informational universe it's almost it's

535
00:21:32,730 --> 00:21:31,090
it's it's almost it it's almost the

536
00:21:35,130 --> 00:21:32,740
exact thing you would expect in an

537
00:21:38,130 --> 00:21:35,140
informational universe yeah yeah that's

538
00:21:41,549 --> 00:21:38,140
because it can be made into whatever we

539
00:21:42,900 --> 00:21:41,559
think it might be and I know I've got

540
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:42,910
people saying that I you know that I

541
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:45,450
think that people make things up that

542
00:21:50,460 --> 00:21:48,490
physical evidence Trump's the idea that

543
00:21:52,590 --> 00:21:50,470
you know that people aren't seeing what

544
00:21:54,530 --> 00:21:52,600
they actually they're seeing but I don't

545
00:21:58,200 --> 00:21:54,540
think so I don't think so every time and

546
00:21:59,880 --> 00:21:58,210
another thing I get with people to be me

547
00:22:02,760 --> 00:21:59,890
saying that this is the only way to go

548
00:22:04,380 --> 00:22:02,770
and that you know UFO research it every

549
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:04,390
other form is terrible and this is the

550
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:06,610
the pinnacle of it I I don't think that

551
00:22:10,919 --> 00:22:08,650
at all I think it's just an interesting

552
00:22:13,340 --> 00:22:10,929
tributary that I like to follow yeah

553
00:22:15,930 --> 00:22:13,350
exactly man and just bringing new things

554
00:22:18,090 --> 00:22:15,940
to the forefront like you've said before

555
00:22:21,060 --> 00:22:18,100
like these these theories they're not

556
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:21,070
exactly new they've been around in

557
00:22:26,370 --> 00:22:23,890
different forms for many decades it's

558
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:26,380
just about you know looking at them

559
00:22:31,409 --> 00:22:29,290
again when all else fails and seeing oh

560
00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:31,419
what can we glean from that that we can

561
00:22:37,140 --> 00:22:33,370
now look at so I think that's a really

562
00:22:39,330 --> 00:22:37,150
good point is is is really that new or

563
00:22:40,919 --> 00:22:39,340
original I'm just trying to get I'm

564
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:40,929
trying to find things that I find

565
00:22:45,900 --> 00:22:42,730
interesting and just you know see what I

566
00:22:47,430 --> 00:22:45,910
can get out of them by by delving into

567
00:22:50,490 --> 00:22:47,440
them a little bit deeper and seeing what

568
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:50,500
these ideas what fruit comes out of you

569
00:22:54,570 --> 00:22:52,090
know planning these ideas and and

570
00:22:56,610 --> 00:22:54,580
messing with them and watering them and

571
00:22:58,380 --> 00:22:56,620
you know fertilizing them by other

572
00:23:00,180 --> 00:22:58,390
people talking about them and see what

573
00:23:01,590 --> 00:23:00,190
happens you know and if nothing happens

574
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:01,600
great we'll move on to something else

575
00:23:05,460 --> 00:23:03,490
but this interests me right now exactly

576
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:05,470
and again I think what's really

577
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:06,970
interesting about what you do with your

578
00:23:12,150 --> 00:23:10,210
talks is you ask questions of the

579
00:23:15,900 --> 00:23:12,160
audience and that's a thing that a lot

580
00:23:18,150 --> 00:23:15,910
of speakers or presenters don't do like

581
00:23:20,070 --> 00:23:18,160
you have this theory and you want to see

582
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:20,080
what other people can contribute to it

583
00:23:23,370 --> 00:23:21,730
get the ball rolling see if there is

584
00:23:26,499 --> 00:23:23,380
something to it and I think that's

585
00:23:28,659 --> 00:23:26,509
what's really cool about the esoteric on

586
00:23:30,789 --> 00:23:28,669
is that you have speakers who are

587
00:23:33,339 --> 00:23:30,799
willing to listen to the audience we're

588
00:23:34,719 --> 00:23:33,349
not preaching where we're bringing our

589
00:23:36,669 --> 00:23:34,729
thoughts forward and you want to know

590
00:23:38,199 --> 00:23:36,679
what the people think and I think that's

591
00:23:39,879 --> 00:23:38,209
what's really cool about things like

592
00:23:42,849 --> 00:23:39,889
this it's something that works really

593
00:23:45,459 --> 00:23:42,859
well in Canada is you have such a

594
00:23:47,469 --> 00:23:45,469
receptive audience who's willing to like

595
00:23:49,060 --> 00:23:47,479
take that journey with you so that's

596
00:23:50,889 --> 00:23:49,070
something I'm looking forward to do you

597
00:23:52,979 --> 00:23:50,899
what do you think am I getting that

598
00:23:56,199 --> 00:23:52,989
right here about the people in Canada

599
00:23:57,759 --> 00:23:56,209
yeah I think so I mean there are not

600
00:24:00,279 --> 00:23:57,769
people standing up trying to take over

601
00:24:02,079 --> 00:24:00,289
the the narrative exactly the thing when

602
00:24:03,789 --> 00:24:02,089
you during Question and Answer it is

603
00:24:05,469 --> 00:24:03,799
question and answer it's not somebody up

604
00:24:07,839 --> 00:24:05,479
coming up standing up and giving their

605
00:24:11,409 --> 00:24:07,849
own lecture which often often happens at

606
00:24:12,579 --> 00:24:11,419
conferences and I I don't know about you

607
00:24:14,349 --> 00:24:12,589
but I've learned to deal with that if

608
00:24:16,930 --> 00:24:14,359
they go on for more than about a minute

609
00:24:18,669 --> 00:24:16,940
I say something like other people are

610
00:24:19,479 --> 00:24:18,679
waiting to ask questions so please ask

611
00:24:22,059 --> 00:24:19,489
your question

612
00:24:23,589 --> 00:24:22,069
yeah yeah it's tough in this situation

613
00:24:25,719 --> 00:24:23,599
because you want to be respectful but at

614
00:24:29,769 --> 00:24:25,729
the same time yeah like where's the

615
00:24:30,999 --> 00:24:29,779
question you know I've got to finish

616
00:24:32,319 --> 00:24:31,009
that's like well hurry up and finish

617
00:24:32,859 --> 00:24:32,329
because other people want to ask a

618
00:24:34,059 --> 00:24:32,869
question

619
00:24:35,919 --> 00:24:34,069
unless there's nobody standing behind

620
00:24:39,399 --> 00:24:35,929
them then I can't really say that any

621
00:24:42,939 --> 00:24:39,409
more then we all just stand there

622
00:24:45,729 --> 00:24:42,949
awkwardly silent well then if it goes on

623
00:24:47,529 --> 00:24:45,739
too long I say I have no idea what

624
00:24:48,669 --> 00:24:47,539
you're talking about or if I do have an

625
00:24:49,899 --> 00:24:48,679
idea of what they're talking about I

626
00:24:51,849 --> 00:24:49,909
engage with them a little bit and

627
00:24:53,259 --> 00:24:51,859
discuss it yeah yeah there's other

628
00:24:55,839 --> 00:24:53,269
people waiting and they're just going on

629
00:24:57,669 --> 00:24:55,849
and on I'm like this you're being rude

630
00:25:01,359 --> 00:24:57,679
please don't be rude to other people

631
00:25:04,469 --> 00:25:01,369
exactly exactly man yeah well I mean I

632
00:25:08,709 --> 00:25:04,479
think that's it for the speakers right

633
00:25:11,379 --> 00:25:08,719
yeah I mean we've mentioned all the

634
00:25:13,169 --> 00:25:11,389
speakers and not too much about Holly

635
00:25:15,909 --> 00:25:13,179
but I think she's just going to talk

636
00:25:18,699 --> 00:25:15,919
basically about some of the things she's

637
00:25:20,589 --> 00:25:18,709
experienced on this on content because

638
00:25:21,879 --> 00:25:20,599
her experience is quite different than

639
00:25:23,739 --> 00:25:21,889
Paul's and it's quite different than

640
00:25:26,439 --> 00:25:23,749
their cameraman Dylan was how things

641
00:25:28,449 --> 00:25:26,449
happen to him I hate part of the cast

642
00:25:30,369 --> 00:25:28,459
just by being there because stuff

643
00:25:31,839 --> 00:25:30,379
started happening to him in fact the

644
00:25:34,899 --> 00:25:31,849
stuff that happened happened at that

645
00:25:36,909 --> 00:25:34,909
ghost time kind of happened around him

646
00:25:39,279 --> 00:25:36,919
when I was in the room with it yes I

647
00:25:40,630 --> 00:25:39,289
remember that yep we we talked about

648
00:25:43,210 --> 00:25:40,640
that afterwards

649
00:25:45,610 --> 00:25:43,220
that that's really interesting Dylan is

650
00:25:47,740 --> 00:25:45,620
was a severe skeptic before all of this

651
00:25:49,620 --> 00:25:47,750
he was just looking for a job you know

652
00:25:53,740 --> 00:25:49,630
get his foot in the door film wise and

653
00:25:56,020 --> 00:25:53,750
it turned into like a whole new journey

654
00:25:57,730 --> 00:25:56,030
for him I would say like you said he

655
00:26:00,900 --> 00:25:57,740
became a character in what he was

656
00:26:03,250 --> 00:26:00,910
filming that's really cool yeah and

657
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:03,260
maybe Dylan will talk a little bit too

658
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:05,810
but yeah you know Holly Holly and Paul

659
00:26:11,110 --> 00:26:08,210
are the main hosts and most of the stuff

660
00:26:13,870 --> 00:26:11,120
happens on them and to them and around

661
00:26:15,790 --> 00:26:13,880
them and that's what makes the show so I

662
00:26:17,140 --> 00:26:15,800
like to show a lot I mean I Paul's my

663
00:26:19,150 --> 00:26:17,150
friend and all he's my friend and all

664
00:26:21,910 --> 00:26:19,160
that but I actually enjoy the show

665
00:26:24,460 --> 00:26:21,920
because it's so non sensationalistic and

666
00:26:25,690 --> 00:26:24,470
it's so kind of like look this weird

667
00:26:27,850 --> 00:26:25,700
thing happened and we're not going to

668
00:26:29,500 --> 00:26:27,860
scream and jump around or speculate that

669
00:26:31,210 --> 00:26:29,510
it's you know the old ghosts of whatever

670
00:26:32,980 --> 00:26:31,220
trying to kill us or anything like that

671
00:26:34,570 --> 00:26:32,990
it's just more like this was very

672
00:26:36,670 --> 00:26:34,580
interesting this is the history this is

673
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:36,680
what it could be here's some strange

674
00:26:40,390 --> 00:26:38,210
stuff that happened while we were there

675
00:26:44,170 --> 00:26:40,400
which is not you know normally

676
00:26:45,460 --> 00:26:44,180
explainable so I like to show a lot and

677
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:45,470
I don't think it'll be popular it would

678
00:26:48,850 --> 00:26:46,970
be properly in the United States because

679
00:26:50,290 --> 00:26:48,860
people want people screaming and jumping

680
00:26:52,540 --> 00:26:50,300
around and saying what was that with

681
00:26:56,830 --> 00:26:52,550
night-vision cameras strapped all over

682
00:26:58,690 --> 00:26:56,840
them exactly yeah if if it's any

683
00:27:01,780 --> 00:26:58,700
indication of what they showed evidence

684
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:01,790
wise at this last conference we're at um

685
00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:05,570
that evidence alone is incredible and

686
00:27:10,990 --> 00:27:08,720
terrifying and just all sorts of weird

687
00:27:13,690 --> 00:27:11,000
so yeah I really look forward to

688
00:27:16,150 --> 00:27:13,700
whatever they got in store for us again

689
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:16,160
the event is taking place Saturday and

690
00:27:22,060 --> 00:27:19,490
Sunday May 19th and 20th at the kts

691
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:22,070
lecture hall at the historic University

692
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:24,650
of King's College in Halifax Nova Scotia

693
00:27:31,300 --> 00:27:27,530
and it's completely free to the public

694
00:27:38,650 --> 00:27:31,310
what are you kidding me that's

695
00:27:40,750 --> 00:27:38,660
incredible like insane this is what I'm

696
00:27:43,570 --> 00:27:40,760
talking about though man I mean Canada

697
00:27:46,450 --> 00:27:43,580
like free conferences free healthcare

698
00:27:50,350 --> 00:27:46,460
they're doing something right yeah what

699
00:27:52,870 --> 00:27:50,360
the hell's what those people are nuts if

700
00:27:53,980 --> 00:27:52,880
people are interested the talks begin at

701
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:53,990
9:30

702
00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:56,690
morning the space is limited so Paula's

703
00:28:01,360 --> 00:27:58,010
asked if you want to reserve a seat

704
00:28:04,030 --> 00:28:01,370
email him at Paul Kimball at winter-like

705
00:28:05,860 --> 00:28:04,040
productions comm or you can just show up

706
00:28:08,410 --> 00:28:05,870
the morning of probably wiggle your way

707
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:08,420
in either way I know it's going to be an

708
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:10,850
incredible weekend you know again just

709
00:28:16,180 --> 00:28:14,210
people having conversations and I love

710
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:16,190
entering any opportunity to visit Canada

711
00:28:20,710 --> 00:28:17,890
and it's even better meeting new people

712
00:28:23,110 --> 00:28:20,720
seeing all of you guys so again if

713
00:28:26,020 --> 00:28:23,120
you're in Canada make the flight over to

714
00:28:29,799 --> 00:28:26,030
Halifax and come join us on may 19th and

715
00:28:32,650 --> 00:28:29,809
20th before we go can you please Greg

716
00:28:36,190 --> 00:28:32,660
tell us where we can find your podcast

717
00:28:38,530 --> 00:28:36,200
radio mysterioso at Radio mysterioso

718
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:38,540
comm that was easy

719
00:28:43,030 --> 00:28:40,610
it's not it's not spelled like the

720
00:28:45,940 --> 00:28:43,040
English it's spelled like Spanish Mis te

721
00:28:48,370 --> 00:28:45,950
RI Oso yep absolutely

722
00:28:50,620 --> 00:28:48,380
but if you put in my ste our it'll still

723
00:28:53,410 --> 00:28:50,630
come up you know there's there's there's

724
00:28:54,910 --> 00:28:53,420
shows going back years but I think

725
00:28:57,580 --> 00:28:54,920
there's a couple hundred shows on there

726
00:29:01,210 --> 00:28:57,590
with everybody from ghost hunters to you

727
00:29:03,430 --> 00:29:01,220
know I recently had Dean Radin on to a

728
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:03,440
lot of a lot of female researchers I've

729
00:29:08,710 --> 00:29:06,410
had on recently I'm about to put one up

730
00:29:10,570 --> 00:29:08,720
with Shannon Taggart who's a with it who

731
00:29:12,190 --> 00:29:10,580
does spirit photography so that one's

732
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:12,200
gonna be that that was a good show and

733
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:13,850
that'll go up in the next probably week

734
00:29:17,890 --> 00:29:15,050
or two maybe after I get back from

735
00:29:19,180 --> 00:29:17,900
Canada yes and I'm sure we will be doing

736
00:29:21,490 --> 00:29:19,190
some recording while we're there and

737
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:21,500
have some really interesting things to

738
00:29:27,490 --> 00:29:24,410
talk about after so yes we're gonna have

739
00:29:30,490 --> 00:29:27,500
you back on for sure live show from

740
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:30,500
Canada on the what is it a week from

741
00:29:36,490 --> 00:29:34,130
Sunday yep which would be the 13th or no

742
00:29:38,140 --> 00:29:36,500
I'm sorry the 20th yep the 20th that's

743
00:29:41,740 --> 00:29:38,150
funny writing mysterious Oh we'll have a

744
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:41,750
live esoteric on cool down show love it

745
00:29:46,750 --> 00:29:43,610
I can't wait to be involved with that

746
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:46,760
and and to see you in about a week my

747
00:29:50,919 --> 00:29:48,890
friend so I have to thank you for coming

748
00:29:52,750 --> 00:29:50,929
on for this brief time giving us a sneak

749
00:29:56,260 --> 00:29:52,760
peek at what to expect at the esoteric

750
00:29:59,440 --> 00:29:56,270
on and look forward to seeing everybody

751
00:30:01,480 --> 00:29:59,450
and learning new things and asking new

752
00:30:02,950 --> 00:30:01,490
questions so again Greg Bishop thanks

753
00:30:05,990 --> 00:30:02,960
for joining me brother thanks so much

754
00:30:15,630 --> 00:30:10,460
[Music]

755
00:30:17,940 --> 00:30:15,640
November 5th 1975 Travis Walton is 22

756
00:30:20,460 --> 00:30:17,950
years old he was working a logging

757
00:30:23,549 --> 00:30:20,470
contract in central Arizona in the

758
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:23,559
apache-sitgreaves National Forest while

759
00:30:27,659 --> 00:30:25,450
driving home one evening with his fellow

760
00:30:30,990 --> 00:30:27,669
loggers they came across something

761
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:31,000
burning bright in the distance fearing

762
00:30:35,850 --> 00:30:33,250
it was a brush fire they drove a bit

763
00:30:38,399 --> 00:30:35,860
closer to get a better look as they

764
00:30:41,970 --> 00:30:38,409
approached they realized it was anything

765
00:30:44,580 --> 00:30:41,980
but a fire above them they witnessed a

766
00:30:45,330 --> 00:30:44,590
hovering disc shaped object in the night

767
00:30:47,460 --> 00:30:45,340
sky

768
00:30:50,430 --> 00:30:47,470
Walton jumped out of his truck and

769
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:50,440
approached it curiosity getting the best

770
00:30:54,750 --> 00:30:52,570
of him it would be the decision that

771
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:54,760
would change the course of his entire

772
00:31:00,269 --> 00:30:57,610
life as he walked directly below the

773
00:31:02,340 --> 00:31:00,279
hovering object the other lockers begged

774
00:31:04,340 --> 00:31:02,350
and pleaded for him to get back in the

775
00:31:07,730 --> 00:31:04,350
truck when he got within close proximity

776
00:31:11,220 --> 00:31:07,740
the object shot a bolt of light down

777
00:31:14,330 --> 00:31:11,230
striking Travis and sending him over 20

778
00:31:17,519 --> 00:31:14,340
feet in the air knocking him unconscious

779
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:17,529
the other loggers fearing the same fate

780
00:31:23,460 --> 00:31:21,010
fled the scene in pure terror they

781
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:23,470
phoned the local sheriff and soon they

782
00:31:30,029 --> 00:31:26,770
all went back to try to find Travis they

783
00:31:31,710 --> 00:31:30,039
could not a search was soon underway by

784
00:31:34,010 --> 00:31:31,720
the local law enforcement and the

785
00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:34,020
neighboring towns of snowflake Arizona

786
00:31:40,019 --> 00:31:37,510
where Travis called home days passed and

787
00:31:42,810 --> 00:31:40,029
Travis was nowhere to be found

788
00:31:45,029 --> 00:31:42,820
fearing he was dead locals began to

789
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:45,039
speculate that the other loggers may

790
00:31:51,510 --> 00:31:47,770
have killed Travis whether on purpose or

791
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:51,520
by accident and hid the body this was

792
00:31:56,370 --> 00:31:54,250
now turning into a murder case when the

793
00:31:58,350 --> 00:31:56,380
men started to tell their story of what

794
00:32:00,810 --> 00:31:58,360
they'd seen happened to Travis that

795
00:32:02,269 --> 00:32:00,820
night the entire case now went

796
00:32:04,009 --> 00:32:02,279
international

797
00:32:06,459 --> 00:32:04,019
and reporters from all over the world

798
00:32:09,769 --> 00:32:06,469
began to descend on the sleepy town of

799
00:32:12,169 --> 00:32:09,779
snowflake for five days the other

800
00:32:14,389 --> 00:32:12,179
loggers stuck to their story taking

801
00:32:17,659 --> 00:32:14,399
lie-detector tests to prove their

802
00:32:20,779 --> 00:32:17,669
innocence meanwhile the story of the UFO

803
00:32:21,739 --> 00:32:20,789
brought many believers and debunkers to

804
00:32:24,979 --> 00:32:21,749
town as well

805
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:24,989
one noted skeptic Philip J class even

806
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:27,210
offering the loggers a hefty bribe to

807
00:32:32,869 --> 00:32:29,570
admit the UFO event had never happened

808
00:32:36,589 --> 00:32:32,879
they refused and they passed the lie

809
00:32:38,769 --> 00:32:36,599
detector tests with flying colors as the

810
00:32:42,409 --> 00:32:38,779
case spun more and more out of control

811
00:32:46,190 --> 00:32:42,419
something had to break and soon Travis

812
00:32:47,959 --> 00:32:46,200
Walton returned and the story he told of

813
00:32:50,419 --> 00:32:47,969
what happened while he was gone will

814
00:32:52,639 --> 00:32:50,429
forever be remembered as perhaps the

815
00:32:56,930 --> 00:32:52,649
most famous alien abduction account of

816
00:32:59,269 --> 00:32:56,940
all time in 2016 a documentary was

817
00:33:02,089 --> 00:32:59,279
screened in New York City at the philip

818
00:33:05,089 --> 00:33:02,099
k dick film festival it won best

819
00:33:08,719 --> 00:33:05,099
documentary of the entire festival that

820
00:33:11,060 --> 00:33:08,729
film was titled Travis the true story of

821
00:33:13,639 --> 00:33:11,070
Travis Walton it was directed by

822
00:33:15,950 --> 00:33:13,649
Jennifer Stein and co-produced by both

823
00:33:18,950 --> 00:33:15,960
her and best-selling author and UFO

824
00:33:21,109 --> 00:33:18,960
researcher Peter Robbins the documentary

825
00:33:23,899 --> 00:33:21,119
was an intimate examination of the

826
00:33:26,539 --> 00:33:23,909
entire Travis Walton event told through

827
00:33:29,930 --> 00:33:26,549
the eyes mouths and hearts of everyone

828
00:33:32,899 --> 00:33:29,940
involved where the 1993 Hollywood film

829
00:33:34,820 --> 00:33:32,909
adaptation fire in the sky took a

830
00:33:36,889 --> 00:33:34,830
fantastical and horror driven approach

831
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:36,899
to telling Travis's story this

832
00:33:41,919 --> 00:33:39,690
documentary dives deep into the very

833
00:33:44,719 --> 00:33:41,929
factual and very well documented

834
00:33:47,570 --> 00:33:44,729
accounts of what truly happened in the

835
00:33:49,849 --> 00:33:47,580
woods that night upon viewing the film I

836
00:33:52,430 --> 00:33:49,859
was able to sit down face to face with

837
00:33:55,279 --> 00:33:52,440
Jennifer Stein and Peter Robbins to

838
00:33:57,829 --> 00:33:55,289
discuss it in depth and the incredible

839
00:34:00,769 --> 00:33:57,839
developments in the case that continued

840
00:34:03,229 --> 00:34:00,779
up until today so without further ado

841
00:34:08,740 --> 00:34:03,239
here's my conversation with Jennifer

842
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:11,450
so guys why are we celebrating

843
00:34:16,609 --> 00:34:14,970
we won the best UFO are actually the

844
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:16,619
best documentary are the best science

845
00:34:23,629 --> 00:34:20,090
fiction feature film of the festival

846
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:23,639
we're scratching our heads delighted

847
00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:26,490
yeah well congratulations some very

848
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:28,169
exciting news thanks for joining us

849
00:34:32,570 --> 00:34:30,690
today laughter um so Jennifer I guess

850
00:34:34,580 --> 00:34:32,580
I'll start with you what made you want

851
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:34,590
to make this film well I felt the

852
00:34:40,099 --> 00:34:37,770
Travis's story really needed to be

853
00:34:41,990 --> 00:34:40,109
remembered and understood certainly by

854
00:34:44,270 --> 00:34:42,000
younger generations who don't seem to

855
00:34:47,659 --> 00:34:44,280
pick up books anymore they're becoming a

856
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:47,669
thing of the past and if anyone really

857
00:34:55,849 --> 00:34:52,050
wants a perspective on one of the top 10

858
00:34:59,750 --> 00:34:55,859
best you know documented UFO stories

859
00:35:01,880 --> 00:34:59,760
Travis's story is amazing there's a lot

860
00:35:03,620 --> 00:35:01,890
of evidence to it a lot of people

861
00:35:05,180 --> 00:35:03,630
involved in the case it's not one of

862
00:35:07,220 --> 00:35:05,190
those stories that could easily be

863
00:35:09,170 --> 00:35:07,230
buried and shoved under the rug there's

864
00:35:10,820 --> 00:35:09,180
polygraph involved in it it made

865
00:35:13,220 --> 00:35:10,830
international news because it was a

866
00:35:16,490 --> 00:35:13,230
homicide story a missing person story

867
00:35:19,250 --> 00:35:16,500
and a UFO story the story was heavily

868
00:35:22,190 --> 00:35:19,260
attacked and debunked these guys lives

869
00:35:24,620 --> 00:35:22,200
were destroyed by this there was a huge

870
00:35:27,020 --> 00:35:24,630
story there and after I read his book

871
00:35:31,940 --> 00:35:27,030
and Peter introduced me to Travis in

872
00:35:33,650 --> 00:35:31,950
2010 I just felt like if I could produce

873
00:35:35,810 --> 00:35:33,660
something like that it would be amazing

874
00:35:37,609 --> 00:35:35,820
and I wasn't even sure I could do it I

875
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:37,619
didn't actually even start out to make a

876
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:41,010
documentary and that's another story but

877
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:44,010
I just felt like if it could happen it

878
00:35:49,849 --> 00:35:47,850
would be a great coup for Travis and for

879
00:35:52,099 --> 00:35:49,859
myself as a filmmaker if I could do a

880
00:35:54,470 --> 00:35:52,109
decent job I would have had made a

881
00:35:56,030 --> 00:35:54,480
contribution to maybe shifting the

882
00:35:58,400 --> 00:35:56,040
awareness or the consciousness of the

883
00:36:01,280 --> 00:35:58,410
planet to remember and be aware of

884
00:36:02,930 --> 00:36:01,290
Travis's story and that's that's why I

885
00:36:05,210 --> 00:36:02,940
put the time and effort and money into

886
00:36:08,210 --> 00:36:05,220
it have you ever done a documentary

887
00:36:11,630 --> 00:36:08,220
before yes I've done a couple I started

888
00:36:14,820 --> 00:36:11,640
documentary filmmaking around maybe the

889
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:14,830
late 80s Early 90s

890
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:16,450
a friend of mine was killed in the

891
00:36:23,490 --> 00:36:18,490
terrorist bus attack and I was motivated

892
00:36:25,980 --> 00:36:23,500
to her memory and to raising awareness

893
00:36:28,710 --> 00:36:25,990
about the beginning of the anta fada and

894
00:36:31,530 --> 00:36:28,720
actually the very good relationship that

895
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:31,540
Arabs and Jews had in Israel because a

896
00:36:35,670 --> 00:36:33,610
lot of people think it's bad but in

897
00:36:37,070 --> 00:36:35,680
actuality for thousands of years they've

898
00:36:39,810 --> 00:36:37,080
lived very peacefully and

899
00:36:41,940 --> 00:36:39,820
collaboratively with one another and my

900
00:36:44,310 --> 00:36:41,950
friend had gone to Israel and was caught

901
00:36:46,170 --> 00:36:44,320
in a terrorist bus attack and she made

902
00:36:48,230 --> 00:36:46,180
the nightly news because she survived

903
00:36:52,500 --> 00:36:48,240
the initial attack and then died later

904
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:52,510
so I made a documentary about her used

905
00:36:57,330 --> 00:36:55,330
the documentary to raised about $100,000

906
00:36:59,550 --> 00:36:57,340
and we built a legal aid Bureau in

907
00:37:02,460 --> 00:36:59,560
central Israel and karmiel Israel that

908
00:37:04,230 --> 00:37:02,470
helps both Druze Arabs Muslims women

909
00:37:07,050 --> 00:37:04,240
seeking political asylum it was a

910
00:37:10,050 --> 00:37:07,060
women's organization that we we funneled

911
00:37:12,350 --> 00:37:10,060
the money through and that was my first

912
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:12,360
documentary film so I'm a Purpose Driven

913
00:37:19,770 --> 00:37:16,930
filmmaker and I'm a social activist and

914
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:19,780
I think that we need to all kind of pull

915
00:37:23,940 --> 00:37:21,610
up our bootstraps and do what we can to

916
00:37:26,790 --> 00:37:23,950
heal the world I mean it's a Jewish

917
00:37:30,210 --> 00:37:26,800
theme tikkun olam what do you do to make

918
00:37:33,540 --> 00:37:30,220
your life matter and what impacts you in

919
00:37:35,580 --> 00:37:33,550
your life that you want to remember and

920
00:37:38,370 --> 00:37:35,590
try to change so I wanted to do

921
00:37:40,860 --> 00:37:38,380
something that was non retaliatory and

922
00:37:42,630 --> 00:37:40,870
nature and honoring my friend really

923
00:37:44,850 --> 00:37:42,640
Levine was the best thing I could do so

924
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:44,860
that was my first film book and I really

925
00:37:51,030 --> 00:37:48,130
got my boots wet I literally did it with

926
00:37:53,490 --> 00:37:51,040
a video camera and a vhr with a jog

927
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:53,500
shuttle where you could lay a soundtrack

928
00:37:58,380 --> 00:37:55,930
and then an audio track and that was it

929
00:38:00,420 --> 00:37:58,390
yes he had to lay stuff wine back your

930
00:38:02,490 --> 00:38:00,430
jog shuttle lay more stuff wine back

931
00:38:05,330 --> 00:38:02,500
your jog shuttle oh my name is I can't

932
00:38:07,890 --> 00:38:05,340
imagine oh and that's how I started

933
00:38:09,990 --> 00:38:07,900
awesome Wow well that's fascinating like

934
00:38:11,940 --> 00:38:10,000
the dichotomy appear subject matter yeah

935
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:11,950
documentaries but it all seems to

936
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:14,410
somehow be connected and moving though

937
00:38:18,660 --> 00:38:17,050
the world forward the consciousness the

938
00:38:21,510 --> 00:38:18,670
collective consciousness just listen

939
00:38:23,670 --> 00:38:21,520
awareness so how did this man get

940
00:38:25,530 --> 00:38:23,680
involved over here to my right mr. Peter

941
00:38:26,319 --> 00:38:25,540
Robinson well I'll tell you Peter is the

942
00:38:29,169 --> 00:38:26,329
walnut

943
00:38:32,169 --> 00:38:29,179
introduce me to Travis I came to a

944
00:38:35,410 --> 00:38:32,179
Roswell UFO conference that Peter was

945
00:38:37,599 --> 00:38:35,420
helping to orchestrate and offered to be

946
00:38:39,249 --> 00:38:37,609
Peters assistant and help I wanted to

947
00:38:41,620 --> 00:38:39,259
kind of get my feet wet and

948
00:38:43,449 --> 00:38:41,630
understanding how the Roswell conference

949
00:38:45,039 --> 00:38:43,459
work because I'd run a lot of UFO

950
00:38:47,949 --> 00:38:45,049
conferences myself and Philly

951
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:47,959
and Peter was kind enough to say oh gosh

952
00:38:54,609 --> 00:38:51,410
yes come and you can help so I was there

953
00:38:56,890 --> 00:38:54,619
that year with Jesse Marcel jr.

954
00:38:59,109 --> 00:38:56,900
assisting him and helping and that's

955
00:39:01,359 --> 00:38:59,119
where I met Travis and that's where we

956
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:01,369
had the conversation about Travis

957
00:39:06,609 --> 00:39:04,249
hosting his own conference possibly in

958
00:39:09,519 --> 00:39:06,619
Heber at some time in the future because

959
00:39:13,390 --> 00:39:09,529
at that point it was 35 years after his

960
00:39:15,189 --> 00:39:13,400
event and we said to Travis Roswell does

961
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:15,199
a huge economic boom to the city of

962
00:39:20,140 --> 00:39:18,170
Roswell your conference and your story

963
00:39:23,140 --> 00:39:20,150
could be just as important for

964
00:39:25,359 --> 00:39:23,150
northeastern Arizona why don't you put a

965
00:39:27,609 --> 00:39:25,369
conference together and he said well

966
00:39:30,009 --> 00:39:27,619
I've been thinking about it and Peter

967
00:39:32,140 --> 00:39:30,019
and I sort of self volunteered ourself

968
00:39:34,870 --> 00:39:32,150
over a bottle of wine I don't think we

969
00:39:37,539 --> 00:39:34,880
knew what we were getting into but we

970
00:39:39,429 --> 00:39:37,549
volunteered to help him and we started

971
00:39:41,109 --> 00:39:39,439
then working towards the 40th

972
00:39:45,279 --> 00:39:41,119
anniversary and trying to have

973
00:39:47,169 --> 00:39:45,289
conferences building up to that and then

974
00:39:50,529 --> 00:39:47,179
the rest is kind of history that's how I

975
00:39:52,150 --> 00:39:50,539
started making this film I said to

976
00:39:55,029 --> 00:39:52,160
Travis if you want to do it in November

977
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:55,039
in northeastern Arizona and one of the

978
00:39:59,140 --> 00:39:56,890
main things Travis wanted to do at a

979
00:40:01,630 --> 00:39:59,150
conferences take people to the actual

980
00:40:04,059 --> 00:40:01,640
force for the event took place but in

981
00:40:06,309 --> 00:40:04,069
November it could be snowing it could be

982
00:40:08,859 --> 00:40:06,319
raining the road to get up there is a

983
00:40:11,079 --> 00:40:08,869
switchback and it's dirty to feel

984
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:11,089
four-wheel-drive vehicle yeah you can't

985
00:40:17,140 --> 00:40:13,130
necessarily get a bus in there and

986
00:40:19,299 --> 00:40:17,150
November what if it snows so um you know

987
00:40:21,819 --> 00:40:19,309
I have a former event planner so I said

988
00:40:25,630 --> 00:40:21,829
you always have to have a plan B so what

989
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:25,640
will be our plan B it's natural let's go

990
00:40:29,679 --> 00:40:27,650
there in the summer when we know we can

991
00:40:32,489 --> 00:40:29,689
get there let's shoot let's get the guys

992
00:40:35,670 --> 00:40:32,499
back in the forest let's do a virtual

993
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:35,680
filmed you know tour of the site

994
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:38,290
and in the event that it snows we have a

995
00:40:42,150 --> 00:40:40,450
backup right get off everybody that

996
00:40:45,210 --> 00:40:42,160
shows up put them in a conference room

997
00:40:48,090 --> 00:40:45,220
show a film of a tour of the site so

998
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:48,100
that's what I did first okay the summer

999
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:50,530
of 2013 I flew out there with a

1000
00:40:55,050 --> 00:40:52,690
co-producer of mine named Bob Theriot

1001
00:40:56,790 --> 00:40:55,060
who was willing to really help me get

1002
00:40:59,100 --> 00:40:56,800
this project underway because I was like

1003
00:41:01,980 --> 00:40:59,110
going oh my gosh how can I do this it's

1004
00:41:03,420 --> 00:41:01,990
a huge nightmare to pack your camera

1005
00:41:05,490 --> 00:41:03,430
equipment everything you need fly to

1006
00:41:07,830 --> 00:41:05,500
Arizona then drive three hours north

1007
00:41:10,350 --> 00:41:07,840
then schlep all this equipment up to the

1008
00:41:13,170 --> 00:41:10,360
forest hike it in a mile carrying

1009
00:41:15,750 --> 00:41:13,180
tripods and mics and all this stuff and

1010
00:41:17,970 --> 00:41:15,760
he helped me and after we got that

1011
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:17,980
virtual tour done which is called

1012
00:41:22,260 --> 00:41:20,290
tracking sky fire and it's something

1013
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:22,270
that travis has for sale and also Bob

1014
00:41:26,730 --> 00:41:24,130
Theriot and Philadelphia has for sale

1015
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:26,740
it's a virtual tour of the forest after

1016
00:41:31,230 --> 00:41:28,690
we looked at that when we finished that

1017
00:41:32,850 --> 00:41:31,240
in time for a conference that we'd hoped

1018
00:41:37,050 --> 00:41:32,860
that would have happened the 38

1019
00:41:42,030 --> 00:41:37,060
conference we've I realized you know

1020
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:42,040
with a little more work I'm halfway to a

1021
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:45,010
really decent documentary why don't I

1022
00:41:50,610 --> 00:41:47,290
take that virtual tour shoot some

1023
00:41:52,410 --> 00:41:50,620
interviews keep trying to get a few more

1024
00:41:54,300 --> 00:41:52,420
interviews with a polygraph person and

1025
00:41:56,130 --> 00:41:54,310
try to find the police chief and whoever

1026
00:41:58,350 --> 00:41:56,140
else I can find from the town maybe make

1027
00:42:00,780 --> 00:41:58,360
another trip back out there and see what

1028
00:42:03,750 --> 00:42:00,790
I can do and the other unique thing is

1029
00:42:06,660 --> 00:42:03,760
since I'm involved in MUFON I happen to

1030
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:06,670
be organizing the National symposium for

1031
00:42:11,820 --> 00:42:09,370
the mutual UFO network in Philadelphia

1032
00:42:14,730 --> 00:42:11,830
and Cherry Hill in the summer of 2014

1033
00:42:17,460 --> 00:42:14,740
and we were bringing in you know Lee

1034
00:42:20,700 --> 00:42:17,470
Spiegel and Stanley Friedman and Kathy

1035
00:42:23,010 --> 00:42:20,710
Martin and George Knapp we had all these

1036
00:42:25,710 --> 00:42:23,020
wonderful speakers we even had James Fox

1037
00:42:28,380 --> 00:42:25,720
and I said wow if I I'll take over a

1038
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:28,390
hotel room set it up like a studio I'll

1039
00:42:32,190 --> 00:42:30,490
shoot all these interviews yeah and then

1040
00:42:34,140 --> 00:42:32,200
I'll have these core interviews they

1041
00:42:38,340 --> 00:42:34,150
don't get a couple more and then I'll

1042
00:42:41,460 --> 00:42:38,350
edit my my Toshi off right and try to

1043
00:42:44,610 --> 00:42:41,470
create a new film and that's what I did

1044
00:42:46,299 --> 00:42:44,620
so actively I started working on this

1045
00:42:49,660 --> 00:42:46,309
documentary reach

1046
00:42:53,019 --> 00:42:49,670
shaping it and probably around August

1047
00:42:55,689 --> 00:42:53,029
and from 2014 and like it's unheard of

1048
00:42:57,519 --> 00:42:55,699
to do a to edit like this and I had a

1049
00:42:59,739 --> 00:42:57,529
lot of help I had some great guys in

1050
00:43:03,579 --> 00:42:59,749
California that helped me Zachary while

1051
00:43:06,009 --> 00:43:03,589
and Adam Stein who took my for our film

1052
00:43:08,529 --> 00:43:06,019
in October and pulled it tightly

1053
00:43:11,170 --> 00:43:08,539
together in time for the open mind south

1054
00:43:14,049 --> 00:43:11,180
Film Festival right which you also which

1055
00:43:16,209 --> 00:43:14,059
we won both word categories right I was

1056
00:43:19,569 --> 00:43:16,219
really honored by congratulations again

1057
00:43:22,029 --> 00:43:19,579
it seems to be a running theme I'm very

1058
00:43:23,949 --> 00:43:22,039
happy you know when you look at the

1059
00:43:26,319 --> 00:43:23,959
internet and you look at what people

1060
00:43:27,759 --> 00:43:26,329
really want to know about the UFO topic

1061
00:43:29,049 --> 00:43:27,769
is still one of the most highly

1062
00:43:33,009 --> 00:43:29,059
researched topics

1063
00:43:35,079 --> 00:43:33,019
next to porn I don't know if that puts

1064
00:43:36,429 --> 00:43:35,089
it in a good light or a bad light but it

1065
00:43:39,069 --> 00:43:36,439
is that way since the birth of the

1066
00:43:41,829 --> 00:43:39,079
Internet yes the people are most curious

1067
00:43:43,209 --> 00:43:41,839
about who are we where are we where did

1068
00:43:47,499 --> 00:43:43,219
we come from what's the nature of

1069
00:43:50,140 --> 00:43:47,509
reality and sex and sex of course I mean

1070
00:43:52,419 --> 00:43:50,150
these are the the core question they are

1071
00:43:55,269 --> 00:43:52,429
and it doesn't matter what nationality

1072
00:43:58,870 --> 00:43:55,279
you are what religion you are these

1073
00:44:01,719 --> 00:43:58,880
these are the the human conditions that

1074
00:44:05,769 --> 00:44:01,729
we need to really wrestle with we need

1075
00:44:07,569 --> 00:44:05,779
to understand our nature right um that's

1076
00:44:11,019 --> 00:44:07,579
great so I want to get a little back to

1077
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:11,029
the film itself um that I've read last

1078
00:44:15,789 --> 00:44:12,890
night and I had the privilege of seen at

1079
00:44:17,410 --> 00:44:15,799
the Congress as well last year um you

1080
00:44:21,249 --> 00:44:17,420
mentioned earlier you had spoken to the

1081
00:44:24,299 --> 00:44:21,259
sheriff Gillespie yes yes chief

1082
00:44:27,309 --> 00:44:24,309
investigator during the investigation

1083
00:44:28,749 --> 00:44:27,319
what was it like hearing his side of the

1084
00:44:32,620 --> 00:44:28,759
story face to face

1085
00:44:36,699 --> 00:44:32,630
mm-hmm when I was interviewing Marlon he

1086
00:44:39,219 --> 00:44:36,709
was still very skeptical very much on

1087
00:44:42,219 --> 00:44:39,229
the edge of his seat and very cautious

1088
00:44:44,789 --> 00:44:42,229
with his words he never wanted to admit

1089
00:44:48,069 --> 00:44:44,799
that he believed that this had happened

1090
00:44:50,620 --> 00:44:48,079
he said I believe they were trying to

1091
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:50,630
tell the truth he never said I believe

1092
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:53,370
they told the truth so I was amazed

1093
00:44:59,450 --> 00:44:57,090
that still after 40 years he was really

1094
00:45:02,300 --> 00:44:59,460
on the fence without everything but when

1095
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:02,310
we turned the cameras off he told us his

1096
00:45:07,070 --> 00:45:05,130
own UFO story really which was a myth I

1097
00:45:11,030 --> 00:45:07,080
mean he's had more than one okay and in

1098
00:45:13,100 --> 00:45:11,040
fact he had had some events prior to the

1099
00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:13,110
Travis Walton incident so he didn't

1100
00:45:16,580 --> 00:45:14,730
discount the boys and he didn't

1101
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:16,590
disrespect them because he'd seen enough

1102
00:45:24,050 --> 00:45:19,650
odd stuff himself here at the same time

1103
00:45:26,900 --> 00:45:24,060
as a law enforcement officer in a

1104
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:26,910
business where there's a lot of macho

1105
00:45:33,590 --> 00:45:29,970
bantering and posturing the ridicule

1106
00:45:37,790 --> 00:45:33,600
factors amped up tenfold and at the same

1107
00:45:42,110 --> 00:45:37,800
time he knew that this could be real

1108
00:45:43,970 --> 00:45:42,120
yeah so when you see the film the

1109
00:45:46,310 --> 00:45:43,980
Hollywood film I think one of the things

1110
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:46,320
that works best about fire in the sky is

1111
00:45:52,330 --> 00:45:48,930
the human dynamic don't forget about the

1112
00:45:56,060 --> 00:45:52,340
special effects and the alien experience

1113
00:45:58,820 --> 00:45:56,070
the late great James Garner playing the

1114
00:46:02,930 --> 00:45:58,830
sheriff was wonderful and the actors

1115
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:02,940
playing the the deputies what they were

1116
00:46:08,900 --> 00:46:06,930
wrestling with we can only imagine in

1117
00:46:10,580 --> 00:46:08,910
terms of you know we're free to think

1118
00:46:13,460 --> 00:46:10,590
it's not like we work in law enforcement

1119
00:46:15,620 --> 00:46:13,470
or the military or whatever and would

1120
00:46:19,310 --> 00:46:15,630
have problems expressing opinions in a

1121
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:19,320
public forum when I saw the footage I

1122
00:46:25,220 --> 00:46:22,610
was dumbstruck with that as a backstory

1123
00:46:26,900 --> 00:46:25,230
it makes perfect sense knowing what we

1124
00:46:30,370 --> 00:46:26,910
do and that these things do happen in

1125
00:46:34,070 --> 00:46:30,380
Arizona has a fairly high ratio of

1126
00:46:36,140 --> 00:46:34,080
authentic truly anomalous UFO situations

1127
00:46:38,510 --> 00:46:36,150
over the decades but for me that was one

1128
00:46:40,850 --> 00:46:38,520
of the the really most quietly exciting

1129
00:46:44,980 --> 00:46:40,860
parts of the documentary and you just

1130
00:46:47,930 --> 00:46:44,990
said it his he said his 80s now and yet

1131
00:46:52,670 --> 00:46:47,940
you could almost smell the wood burning

1132
00:46:54,290 --> 00:46:52,680
in terms of him choosing what for him

1133
00:46:57,380 --> 00:46:54,300
would be the right word rather than the

1134
00:47:00,140 --> 00:46:57,390
almost right word to sound objective to

1135
00:47:02,900 --> 00:47:00,150
sound open-minded but to still protect

1136
00:47:05,130 --> 00:47:02,910
himself of course within his greater

1137
00:47:07,110 --> 00:47:05,140
community in the way that he

1138
00:47:09,150 --> 00:47:07,120
it's perceived to see in the world and

1139
00:47:10,770 --> 00:47:09,160
there's another important point to

1140
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:10,780
remember and a lot of people seem to

1141
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:13,090
forget this it's well mentioned in the

1142
00:47:18,330 --> 00:47:15,130
film but not we don't beat you over the

1143
00:47:21,510 --> 00:47:18,340
head with it this is a Mormon town right

1144
00:47:25,130 --> 00:47:21,520
there most everybody in the town is

1145
00:47:29,070 --> 00:47:25,140
warming they're very conservative and we

1146
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:29,080
had we went and visited the newspaper

1147
00:47:33,420 --> 00:47:31,210
man who was 11 years old at the time

1148
00:47:35,460 --> 00:47:33,430
when his dad was running newspaper I

1149
00:47:37,770 --> 00:47:35,470
think it's called the Holbrook Tribune

1150
00:47:39,660 --> 00:47:37,780
and when I went and looked at those

1151
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:39,670
articles I photographed them all there's

1152
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:42,490
over 40 articles almost one a year or

1153
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:44,170
you know there were certainly more

1154
00:47:51,390 --> 00:47:48,850
during 1975 to 1995 but when you read

1155
00:47:54,020 --> 00:47:51,400
those articles you would think that this

1156
00:47:57,390 --> 00:47:54,030
really didn't happen because the

1157
00:47:59,010 --> 00:47:57,400
newspaper was so conservative and their

1158
00:48:00,780 --> 00:47:59,020
approach was so conservative Oh

1159
00:48:03,570 --> 00:48:00,790
everybody wanted to protect themselves

1160
00:48:06,170 --> 00:48:03,580
and nobody wanted to be ridiculed and of

1161
00:48:10,740 --> 00:48:06,180
course this story was heavily attacked

1162
00:48:13,980 --> 00:48:10,750
by Philip Glass we won't get started

1163
00:48:18,270 --> 00:48:13,990
under the bus but piggybacking off of

1164
00:48:23,370 --> 00:48:18,280
that someone like class who is a

1165
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:23,380
professional debunker as it were what we

1166
00:48:31,260 --> 00:48:27,370
need is physical evidence and this case

1167
00:48:34,530 --> 00:48:31,270
is the epitome of physical evidence when

1168
00:48:35,820 --> 00:48:34,540
it comes to the abduction phenomenon you

1169
00:48:37,860 --> 00:48:35,830
brought forth some of the most

1170
00:48:41,190 --> 00:48:37,870
compelling evidence that I personally

1171
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:41,200
didn't know about I think 90% of the

1172
00:48:49,140 --> 00:48:43,090
people in the audience didn't know about

1173
00:48:51,720 --> 00:48:49,150
and I heard literal holy Sh I tease when

1174
00:48:54,300 --> 00:48:51,730
you brought forward the UM the true the

1175
00:48:56,580 --> 00:48:54,310
tree growth yeah in the area I mean the

1176
00:49:01,020 --> 00:48:56,590
guy next to me like almost jumped out of

1177
00:49:03,300 --> 00:49:01,030
his semen is there any other evidence

1178
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:03,310
that you'd steer skeptics towards in

1179
00:49:06,630 --> 00:49:05,650
terms of this case that you found while

1180
00:49:09,270 --> 00:49:06,640
making the documentary

1181
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:09,280
well obviously the the polygraphs yes

1182
00:49:15,570 --> 00:49:13,450
can't have seven eight nine people take

1183
00:49:17,910 --> 00:49:15,580
polygraphs in all pass and not have

1184
00:49:20,310 --> 00:49:17,920
something very significant there and in

1185
00:49:23,220 --> 00:49:20,320
fact it's one thing to take a polygraph

1186
00:49:25,820 --> 00:49:23,230
once but to take them multiple times and

1187
00:49:28,470 --> 00:49:25,830
pass your numbers start to go

1188
00:49:31,110 --> 00:49:28,480
exponentially off the charts so if

1189
00:49:34,260 --> 00:49:31,120
anyone wanted to look at that alone

1190
00:49:38,490 --> 00:49:34,270
it was huge the other fact that there

1191
00:49:41,340 --> 00:49:38,500
were probably roughly 250 to upwards of

1192
00:49:43,020 --> 00:49:41,350
500 people that looked for Travis I've

1193
00:49:45,390 --> 00:49:43,030
heard different people give different

1194
00:49:47,370 --> 00:49:45,400
numbers so that's why I give that kind

1195
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:47,380
of arraigned people were looking for him

1196
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:50,530
for five days over a 5-mile radius

1197
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:52,570
there was helicopters there were dogs

1198
00:49:58,460 --> 00:49:55,330
sniffing you know hounds out there and

1199
00:50:00,750 --> 00:49:58,470
the only place they could find traces of

1200
00:50:03,450 --> 00:50:00,760
Travis's scent was where he had been

1201
00:50:05,730 --> 00:50:03,460
working that day where he jumped out of

1202
00:50:07,470 --> 00:50:05,740
the truck where he walked up to the UFO

1203
00:50:12,030 --> 00:50:07,480
where there was a slash file and where

1204
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:12,040
he landed this dogs noses don't lie

1205
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:14,170
there was a fellow who showed up

1206
00:50:20,010 --> 00:50:16,210
unidentified who was doing Geiger

1207
00:50:23,550 --> 00:50:20,020
counter readings and he got huge Geiger

1208
00:50:25,890 --> 00:50:23,560
counter readings on the fellows helmets

1209
00:50:29,340 --> 00:50:25,900
and on the truck but now they had washed

1210
00:50:32,850 --> 00:50:29,350
their clothes but where Travis had been

1211
00:50:35,250 --> 00:50:32,860
struck where Travis landed and the truck

1212
00:50:36,870 --> 00:50:35,260
and the helmets went off the charts once

1213
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:36,880
he got those readings he packed up his

1214
00:50:44,370 --> 00:50:40,090
equipment and took off and nobody really

1215
00:50:45,930 --> 00:50:44,380
knew who he was somebody said he was

1216
00:50:47,910 --> 00:50:45,940
from the Forestry Service of other

1217
00:50:51,450 --> 00:50:47,920
people said no he was from the FBI

1218
00:50:53,460 --> 00:50:51,460
naturally yes if we don't know to me the

1219
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:53,470
other thing that's really interesting is

1220
00:50:59,370 --> 00:50:56,650
there was an awful lot of men in black

1221
00:51:01,530 --> 00:50:59,380
that seemed to show up and track and

1222
00:51:04,230 --> 00:51:01,540
follow these guys in Heber they were

1223
00:51:06,750 --> 00:51:04,240
standing outside waiting for them who

1224
00:51:08,790 --> 00:51:06,760
were these people well I see Pierce was

1225
00:51:10,950 --> 00:51:08,800
talking about his mother observing the

1226
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:10,960
government cars the guys in the suits

1227
00:51:21,240 --> 00:51:16,810
who fit into the snowflake scene like a

1228
00:51:22,620 --> 00:51:21,250
fish and a bicycle it also occurs to me

1229
00:51:25,980 --> 00:51:22,630
that for some people

1230
00:51:29,220 --> 00:51:25,990
who you watch something as compelling

1231
00:51:31,950 --> 00:51:29,230
and as loaded and as effective as this

1232
00:51:34,620 --> 00:51:31,960
documentary if you have a problem with

1233
00:51:37,109 --> 00:51:34,630
the subject and you're not quite at the

1234
00:51:39,870 --> 00:51:37,119
point of turning and trying to attack

1235
00:51:42,569 --> 00:51:39,880
the character of the witnesses we most

1236
00:51:45,180 --> 00:51:42,579
of us know that in the great majority of

1237
00:51:47,789 --> 00:51:45,190
states polygraphs are dismissed in

1238
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:47,799
courts of law they're interesting they

1239
00:51:53,009 --> 00:51:51,130
they may add something you know people

1240
00:51:54,450 --> 00:51:53,019
will often say well I know I'm innocent

1241
00:51:58,440 --> 00:51:54,460
I'm going to pay to have a polygraph

1242
00:52:00,829 --> 00:51:58,450
just so that it's on record etc Ben

1243
00:52:04,170 --> 00:52:00,839
Hansen who did such a wonderful job of

1244
00:52:05,460 --> 00:52:04,180
being a participant and of course

1245
00:52:08,819 --> 00:52:05,470
starred in his own television show

1246
00:52:11,099 --> 00:52:08,829
appears back on sci-fi and he's not you

1247
00:52:14,370 --> 00:52:11,109
know he's a fairly young guy a former

1248
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:14,380
FBI agent that's just it who did

1249
00:52:18,450 --> 00:52:16,690
profiling work and I mean you know he's

1250
00:52:19,380 --> 00:52:18,460
a great looking guy and he's up there

1251
00:52:21,539 --> 00:52:19,390
he's talking

1252
00:52:23,730 --> 00:52:21,549
I think it's lost on some people that

1253
00:52:27,839 --> 00:52:23,740
this is a man who speaks with real

1254
00:52:30,170 --> 00:52:27,849
credentials and interestingly even if

1255
00:52:33,900 --> 00:52:30,180
it's not admissible in a court of law

1256
00:52:38,970 --> 00:52:33,910
the statistics that they were talking

1257
00:52:41,490 --> 00:52:38,980
about for me were as quietly effective

1258
00:52:43,620 --> 00:52:41,500
as the animation on tree growth or the

1259
00:52:46,499 --> 00:52:43,630
close-up on the rings of earring in the

1260
00:52:47,819 --> 00:52:46,509
direction of the event that the most

1261
00:52:51,390 --> 00:52:47,829
conservative and I'm sure it's an

1262
00:52:56,249 --> 00:52:51,400
extremely conservative number of the

1263
00:52:59,180 --> 00:52:56,259
odds of six people seven people being

1264
00:53:01,589 --> 00:52:59,190
polygraph one of the multiple times and

1265
00:53:03,930 --> 00:53:01,599
the way the example he gave me a few

1266
00:53:06,049 --> 00:53:03,940
years ago was if there are two crooks

1267
00:53:10,650 --> 00:53:06,059
and they plot a crime and they're caught

1268
00:53:12,779 --> 00:53:10,660
and they're subjected to a polygraph the

1269
00:53:15,180 --> 00:53:12,789
chances are very good that one of them

1270
00:53:17,009 --> 00:53:15,190
will screw up the story and then

1271
00:53:22,039 --> 00:53:17,019
certainly in a follow up that will fall

1272
00:53:26,009 --> 00:53:22,049
apart but that figure of 78,000 to one

1273
00:53:29,069 --> 00:53:26,019
I've also heard closer to a million to

1274
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:29,079
one whatever it is it's very compelling

1275
00:53:39,660 --> 00:53:33,490
and when you're looking for ways to

1276
00:53:42,569 --> 00:53:39,670
negate or dismiss or belittle this will

1277
00:53:45,180 --> 00:53:42,579
dog you this is just one more brick in

1278
00:53:47,870 --> 00:53:45,190
the wall and a very important one as

1279
00:53:50,279 --> 00:53:47,880
well I think yeah and I also think that

1280
00:53:52,349 --> 00:53:50,289
when you look I know we don't really

1281
00:53:56,370 --> 00:53:52,359
want to get into Philip Glass but why

1282
00:54:00,839 --> 00:53:56,380
was this story so adamantly attacked for

1283
00:54:04,079 --> 00:54:00,849
25 almost 30 years why did she let keep

1284
00:54:07,109 --> 00:54:04,089
trying to put it in the garbage where

1285
00:54:11,730 --> 00:54:07,119
did that $10,000 bride come up from

1286
00:54:14,789 --> 00:54:11,740
exactly when something's really true and

1287
00:54:17,069 --> 00:54:14,799
you need to bury it for whatever reason

1288
00:54:18,900 --> 00:54:17,079
if the government's trying you know has

1289
00:54:21,509 --> 00:54:18,910
informants like this that try to bury

1290
00:54:24,029 --> 00:54:21,519
things they are gonna go after this

1291
00:54:26,190 --> 00:54:24,039
stuff that's really doesn't have holes

1292
00:54:29,069 --> 00:54:26,200
in it yeah and Travis the story does not

1293
00:54:30,900 --> 00:54:29,079
have holes in it but you have to dig to

1294
00:54:33,839 --> 00:54:30,910
know that and the more you dig the more

1295
00:54:35,220 --> 00:54:33,849
you find I mean even I uncovered stuff I

1296
00:54:37,349 --> 00:54:35,230
didn't really know about

1297
00:54:40,259 --> 00:54:37,359
yes Darden yeah I mean you've connected

1298
00:54:42,450 --> 00:54:40,269
some dots in terms of Philip Glass um in

1299
00:54:44,700 --> 00:54:42,460
his connections to some three-letter

1300
00:54:46,980 --> 00:54:44,710
agencies we we won't go into specifics

1301
00:54:49,079 --> 00:54:46,990
we'll let people see the film to see the

1302
00:54:53,269 --> 00:54:49,089
those fascinating connections you made

1303
00:54:56,779 --> 00:54:53,279
with that but you're right yeah I mean

1304
00:55:00,390 --> 00:54:56,789
25 years the contention with this case

1305
00:55:02,220 --> 00:55:00,400
continues and continues and again the

1306
00:55:04,109 --> 00:55:02,230
most challenging thing is that it has

1307
00:55:07,339 --> 00:55:04,119
more physical evidence than any

1308
00:55:10,259 --> 00:55:07,349
abduction case out there perceivably um

1309
00:55:14,249 --> 00:55:10,269
perhaps only the Betty and Barney Hill

1310
00:55:18,240 --> 00:55:14,259
case being the exception I wanted to

1311
00:55:19,380 --> 00:55:18,250
touch on this for you Peter the film was

1312
00:55:22,410 --> 00:55:19,390
part of the philip k dick

1313
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:22,420
science-fiction festival you brought up

1314
00:55:26,370 --> 00:55:24,490
a good point at the panel last night I

1315
00:55:29,430 --> 00:55:26,380
didn't mention there was a panel after

1316
00:55:33,210 --> 00:55:29,440
the screening with Peter yourself and

1317
00:55:37,319 --> 00:55:33,220
Lee Spiegel of The Huffington Post you

1318
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:37,329
were you were interested Peter in the

1319
00:55:42,749 --> 00:55:40,450
perception of a nonfiction documentary

1320
00:55:45,089 --> 00:55:42,759
being part of a science fiction festival

1321
00:55:45,860 --> 00:55:45,099
could you elaborate on that and what

1322
00:55:49,940 --> 00:55:45,870
that what

1323
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:49,950
meant to you you know over the decades

1324
00:55:54,380 --> 00:55:51,650
that I've been doing this work and I

1325
00:56:01,010 --> 00:55:54,390
know for both of you as well in your

1326
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:01,020
time you become a focal point for views

1327
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:03,450
and stories and things that people will

1328
00:56:07,340 --> 00:56:05,610
confide to you that they might not to

1329
00:56:10,250 --> 00:56:07,350
the next person over because they know

1330
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:10,260
you take it seriously and you know your

1331
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:11,970
eyebrows won't go up and no wink-wink

1332
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:16,050
nudge-nudge reactions etc anyway like

1333
00:56:21,530 --> 00:56:18,930
most people i've enjoyed science fiction

1334
00:56:23,630 --> 00:56:21,540
on and off since I was a kid I wouldn't

1335
00:56:28,070 --> 00:56:23,640
call myself a major science fiction fan

1336
00:56:35,170 --> 00:56:28,080
but then again by the time I was five or

1337
00:56:38,830 --> 00:56:35,180
six I was given my father's hard bound

1338
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:38,840
very wonderfully beat-up copies of

1339
00:56:48,050 --> 00:56:44,970
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and either

1340
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:48,060
the time machine or another really great

1341
00:56:53,030 --> 00:56:50,370
classic and I read them when I was very

1342
00:56:56,270 --> 00:56:53,040
young and in the early fifties Walt

1343
00:56:58,070 --> 00:56:56,280
Disney had done they really hocked the

1344
00:56:59,840 --> 00:56:58,080
whole studio it could have gone under

1345
00:57:02,810 --> 00:56:59,850
when they made their first live-action

1346
00:57:05,900 --> 00:57:02,820
film which was 20,000 Leagues Under the

1347
00:57:08,570 --> 00:57:05,910
Sea and I I saw it as a very young child

1348
00:57:11,810 --> 00:57:08,580
and I still have watercolors and

1349
00:57:13,580 --> 00:57:11,820
drawings that I did that afternoon when

1350
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:13,590
I went back to my grandparents house and

1351
00:57:20,270 --> 00:57:15,930
couldn't get the idea of this submarine

1352
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:20,280
in ancient times the 1800s to cut to the

1353
00:57:26,660 --> 00:57:23,450
chase though what I've observed is in

1354
00:57:30,770 --> 00:57:26,670
the pantheon of science fiction fans and

1355
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:30,780
they can be generalists or people who

1356
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:33,450
you know are just major fans of the

1357
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:35,370
first two seasons of Star Trek or Star

1358
00:57:42,140 --> 00:57:39,090
Wars fans or whatever or the classics or

1359
00:57:45,860 --> 00:57:42,150
philip k dick or any of the other great

1360
00:57:49,580 --> 00:57:45,870
great science fiction writers the ratio

1361
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:49,590
of taking this the UFO related subject

1362
00:57:55,820 --> 00:57:52,650
seriously which in some ways one would

1363
00:57:57,509 --> 00:57:55,830
think they might be more predisposed to

1364
00:57:59,789 --> 00:57:57,519
because they're into all of this future

1365
00:58:03,059 --> 00:57:59,799
in science fiction it's about the same

1366
00:58:06,539 --> 00:58:03,069
as the general populace that they don't

1367
00:58:09,239 --> 00:58:06,549
they think you know UFOs are real in

1368
00:58:12,959 --> 00:58:09,249
science fiction but you really think

1369
00:58:17,849 --> 00:58:12,969
this is serious which I find in in a mr.

1370
00:58:21,949 --> 00:58:17,859
Spock kind of way fascinating and so I

1371
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:21,959
was curious as to how this brilliantly

1372
00:58:26,999 --> 00:58:24,130
documented very heartfelt very

1373
00:58:31,319 --> 00:58:27,009
professional documentary on one of the

1374
00:58:34,159 --> 00:58:31,329
most shatteringly challenging authentic

1375
00:58:36,929 --> 00:58:34,169
true UFO events and this major

1376
00:58:39,929 --> 00:58:36,939
disappearance and all the attendant

1377
00:58:43,889 --> 00:58:39,939
drama upon it would resonate with the

1378
00:58:46,589 --> 00:58:43,899
crowd that didn't really think much

1379
00:58:48,599 --> 00:58:46,599
about UFOs and who came to a science

1380
00:58:51,449 --> 00:58:48,609
fiction film festival for science

1381
00:58:53,639 --> 00:58:51,459
fiction films I realized later on in the

1382
00:58:55,289 --> 00:58:53,649
evening that we probably had because it

1383
00:58:59,099 --> 00:58:55,299
was a screening of Travis the

1384
00:59:02,129 --> 00:58:59,109
documentary most of our audience were

1385
00:59:05,759 --> 00:59:02,139
there because they are into this subject

1386
00:59:07,979 --> 00:59:05,769
I recognize many faces from you know in

1387
00:59:10,889 --> 00:59:07,989
the field but there were people in there

1388
00:59:12,449 --> 00:59:10,899
who after the conference came up to me

1389
00:59:15,149 --> 00:59:12,459
and said it really did challenge my

1390
00:59:17,789 --> 00:59:15,159
thinking I found it very exciting I had

1391
00:59:19,859 --> 00:59:17,799
to remind myself that this is real yeah

1392
00:59:22,409 --> 00:59:19,869
and I thought that was a great

1393
00:59:25,620 --> 00:59:22,419
compliment for Jennifer and for Travis

1394
00:59:28,019 --> 00:59:25,630
and for the film in general a testament

1395
00:59:31,739 --> 00:59:28,029
also the head of the film festival

1396
00:59:34,799 --> 00:59:31,749
viewed the entire documentary remarked

1397
00:59:37,439 --> 00:59:34,809
on it and I remember there was a

1398
00:59:39,269 --> 00:59:37,449
documentary two years ago or perhaps

1399
00:59:40,799 --> 00:59:39,279
last year I was on a panel yeah that as

1400
00:59:43,799 --> 00:59:40,809
well I think that was the very first

1401
00:59:45,899 --> 00:59:43,809
yeah non science fiction when they had

1402
00:59:47,849 --> 00:59:45,909
ever had there and it also was a very

1403
00:59:49,919 --> 00:59:47,859
lively discussion with good question

1404
00:59:53,999 --> 00:59:49,929
from the audience as well James James

1405
00:59:56,099 --> 00:59:54,009
Carmen and then last year there was an

1406
00:59:58,500 --> 00:59:56,109
worried Island I hope it was here I

1407
01:00:00,330 --> 00:59:58,510
didn't realize it for that matter

1408
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:00,340
wonderful fatty Oh director of the

1409
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:02,770
festival I think he shows a lot of guts

1410
01:00:10,260 --> 01:00:06,610
in beginning to integrate this material

1411
01:00:13,650 --> 01:00:10,270
into a world where there's more than

1412
01:00:17,100 --> 01:00:13,660
enough enjoyment satisfaction excitement

1413
01:00:19,530 --> 01:00:17,110
in reading the wonderful work of a

1414
01:00:21,690 --> 01:00:19,540
writer at the level of philip k dick who

1415
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:21,700
many people have no idea the tremendous

1416
01:00:25,830 --> 01:00:23,770
impact he's had on a culture and the

1417
01:00:28,170 --> 01:00:25,840
number of his books and stories that

1418
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:28,180
have been made into films over the years

1419
01:00:32,700 --> 01:00:30,250
and influenced other science fiction

1420
01:00:35,700 --> 01:00:32,710
films over the years remarkable

1421
01:00:38,460 --> 01:00:35,710
character so I felt doubly proud because

1422
01:00:41,730 --> 01:00:38,470
his name is one worthy of great respect

1423
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:41,740
science fiction science fiction he's a

1424
01:00:46,790 --> 01:00:44,770
great American writer and he knew how to

1425
01:00:49,470 --> 01:00:46,800
tell a hell of a story that will be

1426
01:00:51,180 --> 01:00:49,480
retold in variations as long as there

1427
01:00:53,580 --> 01:00:51,190
are people on earth I think he's one of

1428
01:00:55,260 --> 01:00:53,590
our great great writers and he happened

1429
01:00:57,900 --> 01:00:55,270
to work in science fiction that was a

1430
01:00:59,700 --> 01:00:57,910
genre mm-hmm dan actually shared

1431
01:01:01,800 --> 01:00:59,710
something interesting with me last time

1432
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:01,810
he's the director of the Philip dick

1433
01:01:08,130 --> 01:01:05,770
festival he said that to somewhere in

1434
01:01:10,980 --> 01:01:08,140
the philip k dick literature or maybe it

1435
01:01:13,610 --> 01:01:10,990
was an interview that was done philip

1436
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:13,620
admitted that he believed he was

1437
01:01:18,180 --> 01:01:15,610
communicated with that he'd had his own

1438
01:01:21,210 --> 01:01:18,190
sightings and that he was being directed

1439
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:21,220
or communicated with by a higher antenna

1440
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:22,090
wasn't aware of that

1441
01:01:30,300 --> 01:01:28,330
was profound to me ice really and that's

1442
01:01:33,150 --> 01:01:30,310
I think one of the reasons why Dan was

1443
01:01:37,380 --> 01:01:33,160
attracted to hosting films like this

1444
01:01:40,350 --> 01:01:37,390
that are true stories but of course the

1445
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:40,360
nature of the story leans towards the

1446
01:01:44,850 --> 01:01:42,730
surreal or the science fiction I would

1447
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:44,860
bet you that anybody who is seriously

1448
01:01:50,940 --> 01:01:47,650
and his work knows that wonderful story

1449
01:01:58,980 --> 01:01:50,950
about him and if so here's an example of

1450
01:02:02,250 --> 01:01:58,990
how a writers experience in a very

1451
01:02:04,620 --> 01:02:02,260
challenging realm can impact itself

1452
01:02:10,700 --> 01:02:04,630
tremendously on popular culture the

1453
01:02:13,550 --> 01:02:10,710
actual a film that I just included my

1454
01:02:17,510 --> 01:02:13,560
general favorite films it's just fun

1455
01:02:19,460 --> 01:02:17,520
from beginning to end was Back to the

1456
01:02:21,859 --> 01:02:19,470
Future the original film it's just

1457
01:02:24,410 --> 01:02:21,869
lovely it's great fun it's great science

1458
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:24,420
fiction beautifully drawn characters a

1459
01:02:32,180 --> 01:02:28,410
great dramatic arc a lot of humor with

1460
01:02:35,990 --> 01:02:32,190
the bath hose and the character of

1461
01:02:38,210 --> 01:02:36,000
Michael J Fox his father who is you know

1462
01:02:42,490 --> 01:02:38,220
when we when we meet him originally is

1463
01:02:46,010 --> 01:02:42,500
just this loser nerd you know

1464
01:02:49,339 --> 01:02:46,020
milquetoast kind of guy but when we go

1465
01:02:52,220 --> 01:02:49,349
back to the future and well when we go

1466
01:02:55,099 --> 01:02:52,230
back to the past and he and his son

1467
01:02:57,380 --> 01:02:55,109
developed a relationship there is that

1468
01:02:59,000 --> 01:02:57,390
moment where Michael J Fox panicked that

1469
01:03:01,370 --> 01:02:59,010
his mother is going to fall in love with

1470
01:03:04,339 --> 01:03:01,380
him and that he'll never get home again

1471
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:04,349
and all that stuff he does something

1472
01:03:09,020 --> 01:03:07,410
which is literally lifted from I think

1473
01:03:12,290 --> 01:03:09,030
the reality of this philip k dick

1474
01:03:15,349 --> 01:03:12,300
experience in a way he gets into his

1475
01:03:18,020 --> 01:03:15,359
father's bedroom at night wears his

1476
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:18,030
radiation hat puts his headset on his

1477
01:03:24,170 --> 01:03:20,490
dad and blasts heavy metal out of it and

1478
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:24,180
of course it's hysterically funny but at

1479
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:26,250
the end of the film when we see how

1480
01:03:30,890 --> 01:03:28,770
things really did work out and we find

1481
01:03:34,250 --> 01:03:30,900
out that his father is a tremendously

1482
01:03:36,380 --> 01:03:34,260
popular science fiction writer yeah it

1483
01:03:38,839 --> 01:03:36,390
happened because of a transcendent

1484
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:38,849
life-changing experience yes of course

1485
01:03:42,950 --> 01:03:40,290
it was staged but it didn't matter

1486
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:42,960
yeah the reality sunk in and he went

1487
01:03:49,570 --> 01:03:47,130
forward from there you know III wonder

1488
01:03:53,329 --> 01:03:49,580
if philip k dick either wrote about this

1489
01:03:55,609 --> 01:03:53,339
at any place and if we have any philip k

1490
01:03:57,500 --> 01:03:55,619
dick fans in in your audience if they'd

1491
01:03:59,660 --> 01:03:57,510
let you know because it'd be really

1492
01:04:01,220 --> 01:03:59,670
interesting to see whether or not that

1493
01:04:02,510 --> 01:04:01,230
was recorded in an interview where he

1494
01:04:04,180 --> 01:04:02,520
ever wrote about it it was just

1495
01:04:06,980 --> 01:04:04,190
something people know about him from

1496
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:06,990
anecdotes and what-have-you absolutely

1497
01:04:11,839 --> 01:04:08,970
we run into this all the time we take

1498
01:04:14,510 --> 01:04:11,849
whitley strieber for instance the I've

1499
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:14,520
been flow of what was his fiction

1500
01:04:19,430 --> 01:04:16,890
writing and what was his non-fiction

1501
01:04:23,210 --> 01:04:19,440
writing what in what chicken-or-egg

1502
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:23,220
let's be honest well I mean bringing up

1503
01:04:28,590 --> 01:04:23,770
you

1504
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:28,600
the sort of that blurred line I wanted

1505
01:04:31,500 --> 01:04:30,010
to share this with you guys because I

1506
01:04:34,109 --> 01:04:31,510
don't know if you are aware during the

1507
01:04:37,310 --> 01:04:34,119
film there was a couple in the audience

1508
01:04:43,940 --> 01:04:37,320
who was having a very heated argument

1509
01:04:46,380 --> 01:04:43,950
mid film they were pretty audible and I

1510
01:04:48,540 --> 01:04:46,390
could hear one of them arguing the

1511
01:04:50,390 --> 01:04:48,550
validity of several of the loggers and

1512
01:04:54,420 --> 01:04:50,400
some of the individuals in the film and

1513
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:54,430
the other one just a back and forth back

1514
01:04:59,310 --> 01:04:56,170
and forth of course they're telling the

1515
01:05:01,380 --> 01:04:59,320
truth no it's he's he's with them on

1516
01:05:04,620 --> 01:05:01,390
this this that it got so heated that

1517
01:05:05,910 --> 01:05:04,630
they eventually left the theater because

1518
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:05,920
they were disrupting the people around

1519
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:08,410
them so I think it was a good thing that

1520
01:05:13,740 --> 01:05:11,170
they did that in truth um this is an

1521
01:05:16,260 --> 01:05:13,750
indicator that Jennifer you most

1522
01:05:20,250 --> 01:05:16,270
definitely hit a nerve and started a

1523
01:05:22,740 --> 01:05:20,260
conversation even made film so we I have

1524
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:22,750
to commend you on that most of these

1525
01:05:27,210 --> 01:05:25,090
conversations take place after the film

1526
01:05:30,599 --> 01:05:27,220
during a panel but you know you've done

1527
01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:30,609
your job when it's mid film so I am I

1528
01:05:39,990 --> 01:05:37,570
definitely had to bring that up I did I

1529
01:05:42,510 --> 01:05:40,000
thought why are they talking through the

1530
01:05:44,609 --> 01:05:42,520
film they were obviously annoying the

1531
01:05:46,890 --> 01:05:44,619
people around but I was like 10 rows

1532
01:05:51,750 --> 01:05:46,900
back I saw them leave and I went well

1533
01:05:53,580 --> 01:05:51,760
that's two we've lost interest yes I

1534
01:05:56,099 --> 01:05:53,590
thought oh well either they really hate

1535
01:05:59,520 --> 01:05:56,109
it or they have to be somewhere right or

1536
01:06:02,790 --> 01:05:59,530
they exactly um but again a testament to

1537
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:02,800
the film um both of you have spent

1538
01:06:07,740 --> 01:06:05,650
countless hours with Travis I've met him

1539
01:06:09,630 --> 01:06:07,750
on two occasions and the guy he's one of

1540
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:09,640
the nicest people you'll ever meet

1541
01:06:15,450 --> 01:06:11,890
he's a straight shooter and he admits

1542
01:06:19,020 --> 01:06:15,460
that he wishes this event never happened

1543
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:19,030
to him do you think that the abduction

1544
01:06:24,810 --> 01:06:22,810
phenomenon or ufology in general would

1545
01:06:26,820 --> 01:06:24,820
it be said back if this incident never

1546
01:06:30,359 --> 01:06:26,830
occurred what are your personal thoughts

1547
01:06:33,060 --> 01:06:30,369
on that again this seems to be one of

1548
01:06:35,580 --> 01:06:33,070
the preeminent cases that has that

1549
01:06:37,100 --> 01:06:35,590
evidence that we strive for and we

1550
01:06:38,900 --> 01:06:37,110
search for

1551
01:06:42,650 --> 01:06:38,910
do you think we would be as a community

1552
01:06:45,470 --> 01:06:42,660
as a field had this case not happened I

1553
01:06:51,970 --> 01:06:45,480
think probably very much where we are

1554
01:06:55,310 --> 01:06:51,980
right now things have a way of filling

1555
01:06:58,270 --> 01:06:55,320
space if something is missing perhaps

1556
01:07:03,890 --> 01:06:58,280
there would have been that much more

1557
01:07:09,110 --> 01:07:03,900
historic study and debate and media

1558
01:07:10,730 --> 01:07:09,120
projects focus on the hills or on Debbie

1559
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:10,740
Jordan the subject of Budd Hopkins

1560
01:07:17,900 --> 01:07:14,730
intruders or Linda Cortile and there's

1561
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:17,910
plenty of information and plenty of good

1562
01:07:24,470 --> 01:07:20,970
casework out there and if one major case

1563
01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:24,480
I think were displaced it would Hardy

1564
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:28,530
hardly put a hole in the field ranks

1565
01:07:33,650 --> 01:07:30,090
would simply close and people would

1566
01:07:36,830 --> 01:07:33,660
argue about or argue for other case

1567
01:07:41,810 --> 01:07:36,840
materials other evidences etc but who

1568
01:07:45,590 --> 01:07:41,820
knows again it's it's all what if stuff

1569
01:07:48,710 --> 01:07:45,600
isn't it I think the fact that it did

1570
01:07:51,380 --> 01:07:48,720
happen and that like it or not

1571
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:51,390
Travis was thrust into not a national

1572
01:07:59,900 --> 01:07:54,930
but an international spotlight whatever

1573
01:08:03,850 --> 01:07:59,910
his reflections on it now he has been of

1574
01:08:06,290 --> 01:08:03,860
tremendous value as a rational

1575
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:06,300
representative of what for most people

1576
01:08:14,990 --> 01:08:11,930
is impossible crazy science fiction a

1577
01:08:16,910 --> 01:08:15,000
fabrication the mantra there for me and

1578
01:08:18,410 --> 01:08:16,920
it's a skeptics mantra is it can't be

1579
01:08:20,690 --> 01:08:18,420
therefore it isn't

1580
01:08:22,900 --> 01:08:20,700
therefore it's something else and the

1581
01:08:25,550 --> 01:08:22,910
job that I've chosen in life is to

1582
01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:25,560
explain to you you poor deluded person

1583
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:28,290
who actually believes this nonsense what

1584
01:08:32,930 --> 01:08:29,930
it is in the real world that you were

1585
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:32,940
misunderstanding now whether or not that

1586
01:08:37,460 --> 01:08:35,370
person actually believes that pose or

1587
01:08:41,630 --> 01:08:37,470
you know they've got ulterior motives of

1588
01:08:46,660 --> 01:08:41,640
some sort Travis Walton is very

1589
01:08:48,510 --> 01:08:46,670
difficult to take down he literally

1590
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:48,520
radiates

1591
01:08:54,870 --> 01:08:52,210
certain integrity I saw him speak for

1592
01:08:57,150 --> 01:08:54,880
the first time more than 25 years ago it

1593
01:08:58,650 --> 01:08:57,160
was at a conference in North Haven

1594
01:09:00,780 --> 01:08:58,660
Connecticut that Larry and I were

1595
01:09:04,250 --> 01:09:00,790
speaking at during the period of time we

1596
01:09:08,670 --> 01:09:04,260
were working on left at Eastgate we both

1597
01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:08,680
had tremendous admiration for this guy

1598
01:09:14,070 --> 01:09:11,170
but we're both a little bit starstruck

1599
01:09:16,740 --> 01:09:14,080
at the same time concurrent with that

1600
01:09:19,050 --> 01:09:16,750
watching him on stage it was there was

1601
01:09:21,450 --> 01:09:19,060
no question in my mind that he was not

1602
01:09:23,849 --> 01:09:21,460
only not enjoying the process of

1603
01:09:26,309 --> 01:09:23,859
communicating with an audience from a

1604
01:09:28,849 --> 01:09:26,319
stage which is something I do enjoy even

1605
01:09:30,900 --> 01:09:28,859
when you're dealing with loaded material

1606
01:09:33,539 --> 01:09:30,910
but that he was there for a very

1607
01:09:36,360 --> 01:09:33,549
different reason he was there because he

1608
01:09:40,860 --> 01:09:36,370
felt it was his responsibility to be

1609
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:40,870
there the other thing about Travis which

1610
01:09:47,940 --> 01:09:43,810
I try always to remember is from the

1611
01:09:51,380 --> 01:09:47,950
get-go it's not like this arced over a

1612
01:09:53,670 --> 01:09:51,390
period of time he walked into an

1613
01:09:57,870 --> 01:09:53,680
absolute international storm of

1614
01:10:02,720 --> 01:09:57,880
controversy dehydrated in shock hadn't

1615
01:10:06,570 --> 01:10:02,730
even in five days completely as he said

1616
01:10:08,820 --> 01:10:06,580
borderline catatonic at first and he

1617
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:08,830
could have tried he could have become a

1618
01:10:13,550 --> 01:10:11,170
recluse he could have you know just got

1619
01:10:16,770 --> 01:10:13,560
off and been a mountain man or something

1620
01:10:19,440 --> 01:10:16,780
over the din several decades he's been a

1621
01:10:22,100 --> 01:10:19,450
lecturer he has become one of the most

1622
01:10:26,310 --> 01:10:22,110
articulate spokespeople we've ever had

1623
01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:26,320
for unusual stuff happening to regular

1624
01:10:35,910 --> 01:10:31,210
people and I get the sense and I mean

1625
01:10:37,620 --> 01:10:35,920
this in a way with no negative or

1626
01:10:41,430 --> 01:10:37,630
positive value added it's simply a fact

1627
01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:41,440
he is always overwhelmed by requests

1628
01:10:49,170 --> 01:10:45,730
from people it's a problem I don't know

1629
01:10:51,780 --> 01:10:49,180
anybody who is or will ever be more

1630
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:51,790
behind in their emails thousands behind

1631
01:10:58,530 --> 01:10:54,690
he can never keep up with it I think he

1632
01:11:01,459 --> 01:10:58,540
walks around with a certain sense of I I

1633
01:11:03,140 --> 01:11:01,469
wish I could keep up with all this stuff

1634
01:11:04,549 --> 01:11:03,150
and it still happens with him I mean

1635
01:11:06,620 --> 01:11:04,559
bless his heart

1636
01:11:08,569 --> 01:11:06,630
he is a hard guy to get hold of and

1637
01:11:11,390 --> 01:11:08,579
confirm and I think it's deeply

1638
01:11:14,029 --> 01:11:11,400
conditioned going back 40 years now of

1639
01:11:15,350 --> 01:11:14,039
people wanting a piece of him and that's

1640
01:11:18,739 --> 01:11:15,360
another interesting thing to observe

1641
01:11:21,200 --> 01:11:18,749
he's a very generous person I've rarely

1642
01:11:23,379 --> 01:11:21,210
seen speakers who when there isn't a

1643
01:11:25,790 --> 01:11:23,389
time constraint at the end of a program

1644
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:25,800
will not just take questions from the

1645
01:11:30,319 --> 01:11:27,690
audience but repeatedly and we've done

1646
01:11:32,450 --> 01:11:30,329
quite a number of appearances together

1647
01:11:35,660 --> 01:11:32,460
since the film came out with and without

1648
01:11:39,319 --> 01:11:35,670
Jennifer he will answer every single

1649
01:11:40,969 --> 01:11:39,329
question every single question until

1650
01:11:44,629 --> 01:11:40,979
there is no questions left in that

1651
01:11:46,459 --> 01:11:44,639
audience then he will for the countless

1652
01:11:49,069 --> 01:11:46,469
number of time take photographs with

1653
01:11:54,049 --> 01:11:49,079
anybody who wants to take pictures sign

1654
01:12:02,020 --> 01:11:54,059
anything he will describe things in ways

1655
01:12:06,259 --> 01:12:02,030
that I find thoughtful poignant fun and

1656
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:06,269
treat everybody as an individual with

1657
01:12:12,310 --> 01:12:09,090
respect whether they're you know a

1658
01:12:15,229 --> 01:12:12,320
senior citizen or a kid or what have you

1659
01:12:17,810 --> 01:12:15,239
that's really worthy of respect in

1660
01:12:20,390 --> 01:12:17,820
itself I I don't know if he's ever going

1661
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:20,400
to get out from under this sort of

1662
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:22,650
psychic load it may just be part of his

1663
01:12:27,439 --> 01:12:25,650
destiny I'll tell you what though

1664
01:12:29,500 --> 01:12:27,449
a year or so ago we were sitting and

1665
01:12:33,439 --> 01:12:29,510
talking one thing leading to another and

1666
01:12:35,750 --> 01:12:33,449
I asked him we can never know the

1667
01:12:38,810 --> 01:12:35,760
answers to these questions for sure had

1668
01:12:41,270 --> 01:12:38,820
this never happened how he thought his

1669
01:12:42,620 --> 01:12:41,280
my life might have gone they thought

1670
01:12:44,959 --> 01:12:42,630
about it for a minute and he said you

1671
01:12:48,290 --> 01:12:44,969
know I had a year of college I was 22

1672
01:12:53,810 --> 01:12:48,300
years old I think I might have gone back

1673
01:12:56,089 --> 01:12:53,820
to school and become a pharmacist said

1674
01:12:57,549 --> 01:12:56,099
well you know it's a profession it's and

1675
01:13:00,049 --> 01:12:57,559
you know a good living

1676
01:13:02,239 --> 01:13:00,059
my intentions were to stay in my

1677
01:13:02,660 --> 01:13:02,249
hometown and I thought well how about

1678
01:13:03,979 --> 01:13:02,670
that

1679
01:13:08,299 --> 01:13:03,989
I'm penny would have been a very good

1680
01:13:12,979 --> 01:13:08,309
pharmacist yeah and I'm glad in a way

1681
01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:12,989
that fate has given him to this

1682
01:13:19,270 --> 01:13:15,170
extraordinary community

1683
01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:19,280
where I see us all in our own ways

1684
01:13:26,780 --> 01:13:23,970
finding our path to be educators in a

1685
01:13:29,180 --> 01:13:26,790
manner that maybe for some of us is

1686
01:13:32,150 --> 01:13:29,190
unconscious for others of us you

1687
01:13:34,220 --> 01:13:32,160
remember that special teacher or that

1688
01:13:36,740 --> 01:13:34,230
amazing lecture or that extraordinary

1689
01:13:39,890 --> 01:13:36,750
film or that book you can never forget

1690
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:39,900
and whether you're answering a question

1691
01:13:44,390 --> 01:13:42,330
of giving a full talk knowing you have

1692
01:13:46,580 --> 01:13:44,400
to walk a line something that Jennifer

1693
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:46,590
had to consider every day working on

1694
01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:49,890
this project where for everything in the

1695
01:13:53,990 --> 01:13:52,370
film that was educational and

1696
01:13:56,540 --> 01:13:54,000
fact-specific

1697
01:13:59,210 --> 01:13:56,550
it has to be done in a manner and I use

1698
01:14:02,680 --> 01:13:59,220
the word with great respect that is

1699
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:02,690
entertaining and has a certain dynamic

1700
01:14:10,270 --> 01:14:06,210
that will carry an average viewer from

1701
01:14:12,530 --> 01:14:10,280
point to point it seems every year

1702
01:14:15,320 --> 01:14:12,540
overall people have lower and lower

1703
01:14:18,470 --> 01:14:15,330
attention spans and like you said there

1704
01:14:21,770 --> 01:14:18,480
is this plague of people reading less

1705
01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:21,780
and less for pleasure or if possible

1706
01:14:26,870 --> 01:14:24,330
even for business and listening and

1707
01:14:30,260 --> 01:14:26,880
watching more and more it's not bad and

1708
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:30,270
good but well it is in a way reading

1709
01:14:37,940 --> 01:14:32,130
especially for book lovers like us is

1710
01:14:39,740 --> 01:14:37,950
integral to our lives and well I mean I

1711
01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:39,750
could go on but that's that's the basic

1712
01:14:47,500 --> 01:14:45,090
thought I I'm not glad this happened to

1713
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:47,510
him you know I would have much preferred

1714
01:14:52,820 --> 01:14:51,330
in an abstract kind of reality that I

1715
01:14:54,410 --> 01:14:52,830
never heard of him that there was

1716
01:14:57,050 --> 01:14:54,420
somebody somewhere else in the United

1717
01:14:59,060 --> 01:14:57,060
States living a life where they were

1718
01:15:01,670 --> 01:14:59,070
enjoying themselves and not feeling

1719
01:15:05,330 --> 01:15:01,680
terribly pressured and you know playing

1720
01:15:08,420 --> 01:15:05,340
with their kids and being a good part of

1721
01:15:10,610 --> 01:15:08,430
their community right but the fact that

1722
01:15:12,830 --> 01:15:10,620
things happen the way they did yeah I

1723
01:15:17,990 --> 01:15:12,840
remember many years ago sitting with my

1724
01:15:22,220 --> 01:15:18,000
mother and her saying we're reflecting

1725
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:22,230
on the impact that my sister and my UFO

1726
01:15:29,790 --> 01:15:27,370
sighting as kids had on us and just we

1727
01:15:33,090 --> 01:15:29,800
fully almost thinking out loud to me I

1728
01:15:35,310 --> 01:15:33,100
wonder if your lives would have turned

1729
01:15:37,050 --> 01:15:35,320
out tremendously different if you've

1730
01:15:39,570 --> 01:15:37,060
been playing in the backyard rather than

1731
01:15:41,220 --> 01:15:39,580
the front yard and I I thought about

1732
01:15:43,770 --> 01:15:41,230
that on and off for years I think

1733
01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:43,780
because Helen had had experiences and

1734
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:45,690
that was one of them

1735
01:15:52,860 --> 01:15:47,530
they would have found her in the back

1736
01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:52,870
time and at the same time I can see how

1737
01:15:56,310 --> 01:15:54,730
both of our lives would have been very

1738
01:15:58,860 --> 01:15:56,320
different had this subject not entered

1739
01:16:01,970 --> 01:15:58,870
into it right I probably overwhelmingly

1740
01:16:04,350 --> 01:16:01,980
would have stayed on my track as a

1741
01:16:08,910 --> 01:16:04,360
gallery painter and a professional

1742
01:16:12,480 --> 01:16:08,920
photographer I might have ended up you

1743
01:16:15,510 --> 01:16:12,490
know with a PhD in fine art and teaching

1744
01:16:21,500 --> 01:16:15,520
and at a university or something my

1745
01:16:29,430 --> 01:16:24,120
oceanographic biologist or something or

1746
01:16:31,170 --> 01:16:29,440
mathematician or a poet but that's not

1747
01:16:33,750 --> 01:16:31,180
the way it is and Travis Walton is

1748
01:16:37,620 --> 01:16:33,760
Travis Walton because he was at the

1749
01:16:40,050 --> 01:16:37,630
wrong place at the exact right moment or

1750
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:40,060
something to happen to change him and

1751
01:16:44,700 --> 01:16:42,010
the lives of everyone he was with and

1752
01:16:47,130 --> 01:16:44,710
everyone who knows them and everyone to

1753
01:16:50,550 --> 01:16:47,140
a degree who knows about what happened

1754
01:16:54,060 --> 01:16:50,560
to them exactly I mean Jennifer you

1755
01:16:57,030 --> 01:16:54,070
mentioned in the panel very eloquently

1756
01:16:59,430 --> 01:16:57,040
that he was he did not have the luxury

1757
01:17:02,000 --> 01:16:59,440
of not coming forward about his

1758
01:17:05,220 --> 01:17:02,010
experience five days it became

1759
01:17:07,800 --> 01:17:05,230
international headlines when the UFO

1760
01:17:09,980 --> 01:17:07,810
story became a part of it um so what I

1761
01:17:12,840 --> 01:17:09,990
think the film you know I saw a couple

1762
01:17:15,780 --> 01:17:12,850
win tential of Murder two having the

1763
01:17:20,850 --> 01:17:15,790
body exactly and then after that it

1764
01:17:24,030 --> 01:17:20,860
became a hoax wears a cabin in the woods

1765
01:17:27,060 --> 01:17:24,040
that he was really staying um so what I

1766
01:17:32,730 --> 01:17:27,070
think the film did and I heard this word

1767
01:17:34,710 --> 01:17:32,740
specifically afterwards from someone not

1768
01:17:37,170 --> 01:17:34,720
only was the production quality good but

1769
01:17:40,530 --> 01:17:37,180
it had heart and I think what you did

1770
01:17:40,950 --> 01:17:40,540
also what you did best in the later half

1771
01:17:46,110 --> 01:17:40,960
of the film

1772
01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:46,120
is show Travis as a person disconnected

1773
01:17:53,370 --> 01:17:49,930
from this incident we do not identify

1774
01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:53,380
ourselves because of our one experience

1775
01:17:59,070 --> 01:17:55,530
in our lives whether it's a sighting

1776
01:18:00,750 --> 01:17:59,080
paranormal a trauma a anything there is

1777
01:18:02,550 --> 01:18:00,760
much more to human beings than that and

1778
01:18:05,400 --> 01:18:02,560
I think you focused on that and show

1779
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:05,410
Travis as a person and that although

1780
01:18:11,070 --> 01:18:07,570
this may have shaped him into the person

1781
01:18:14,100 --> 01:18:11,080
he is there is more to this man than

1782
01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:14,110
that and the title aptly being Travis

1783
01:18:21,450 --> 01:18:17,650
shows us that so yeah I think that was

1784
01:18:24,600 --> 01:18:21,460
thanks I will give credit to to zachary

1785
01:18:27,900 --> 01:18:24,610
while and to Adam Stein who worked with

1786
01:18:31,860 --> 01:18:27,910
me as his editors on this really guiding

1787
01:18:34,830 --> 01:18:31,870
me towards that kind of closure and to

1788
01:18:37,890 --> 01:18:34,840
making it as much and even maybe more so

1789
01:18:40,620 --> 01:18:37,900
a human interest story about how this

1790
01:18:43,170 --> 01:18:40,630
man and the logging crew that he was

1791
01:18:49,320 --> 01:18:43,180
with dealt with this over their lives

1792
01:18:52,500 --> 01:18:49,330
and in actuality I think Travis may not

1793
01:18:56,550 --> 01:18:52,510
have actually written his book if she

1794
01:18:58,920 --> 01:18:56,560
wasn't so angry about being accused of

1795
01:19:01,260 --> 01:18:58,930
hope with the noise when Travis first

1796
01:19:04,170 --> 01:19:01,270
came back he really wasn't involved in

1797
01:19:06,690 --> 01:19:04,180
the media or answering the media it was

1798
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:06,700
his brother Dwayne and the crew boss

1799
01:19:11,850 --> 01:19:09,730
Mike Rogers yes Lee a Mike was the one

1800
01:19:14,940 --> 01:19:11,860
who really dealt with most of the

1801
01:19:19,320 --> 01:19:14,950
communications as well with Phillip

1802
01:19:21,330 --> 01:19:19,330
class because Mike was accused of coming

1803
01:19:24,090 --> 01:19:21,340
up with this elaborate scheme to get out

1804
01:19:26,010 --> 01:19:24,100
of a logging you know contract with the

1805
01:19:28,470 --> 01:19:26,020
Forestry Service which wasn't true

1806
01:19:30,180 --> 01:19:28,480
because if you didn't finish your

1807
01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:30,190
contract you didn't get paid you didn't

1808
01:19:33,390 --> 01:19:31,690
have to get out of it either you

1809
01:19:35,700 --> 01:19:33,400
finished it by a certain deadline and

1810
01:19:37,020 --> 01:19:35,710
you got your payment and if you didn't

1811
01:19:38,970 --> 01:19:37,030
and you missed that deadline

1812
01:19:40,860 --> 01:19:38,980
you didn't yeah Deb submit a new

1813
01:19:43,170 --> 01:19:40,870
contract it's just the way they worked

1814
01:19:46,680 --> 01:19:43,180
so I think this whole story actually

1815
01:19:49,650 --> 01:19:46,690
ended up coming more to light with the

1816
01:19:52,320 --> 01:19:49,660
details that it came to light with with

1817
01:19:54,700 --> 01:19:52,330
Travis finally writing his book and Mike

1818
01:19:57,010 --> 01:19:54,710
Rogers was intimately involved in those

1819
01:19:58,630 --> 01:19:57,020
in the early part of writing the book

1820
01:20:01,360 --> 01:19:58,640
because Mike and Travis were best

1821
01:20:03,450 --> 01:20:01,370
friends so Travis was right there at

1822
01:20:06,729 --> 01:20:03,460
Mike side with all these letters and

1823
01:20:09,189 --> 01:20:06,739
affidavits that had to be you know filed

1824
01:20:10,990 --> 01:20:09,199
to prove that they were telling the

1825
01:20:13,570 --> 01:20:11,000
truth so if the story hadn't been

1826
01:20:15,850 --> 01:20:13,580
debunked and attacked as much as it was

1827
01:20:18,040 --> 01:20:15,860
the book may never have been written

1828
01:20:20,050 --> 01:20:18,050
that the Hollywood film may never have

1829
01:20:22,270 --> 01:20:20,060
been produced and I may not be here

1830
01:20:24,370 --> 01:20:22,280
having made this documentary so the

1831
01:20:26,439 --> 01:20:24,380
effort to squelch the story and the

1832
01:20:29,140 --> 01:20:26,449
anger that it created from within that

1833
01:20:31,689 --> 01:20:29,150
logging crew is what eventually led to

1834
01:20:34,780 --> 01:20:31,699
us knowing about it in the detail we do

1835
01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:34,790
today yeah and it's still ongoing Travis

1836
01:20:40,030 --> 01:20:36,530
is still searching for answers in his

1837
01:20:44,020 --> 01:20:40,040
own experience uh that being said um for

1838
01:20:47,880 --> 01:20:44,030
the future what's next for the film well

1839
01:20:51,430 --> 01:20:47,890
my goal is to try to find a distributor

1840
01:20:53,770 --> 01:20:51,440
who's interested in taking the film to

1841
01:20:56,709 --> 01:20:53,780
some networks I think it has a network

1842
01:20:59,500 --> 01:20:56,719
potential I'm in the process of doing

1843
01:21:01,810 --> 01:20:59,510
some rillette it's doing a forty three

1844
01:21:04,540 --> 01:21:01,820
minute reddit so that I can sell it as a

1845
01:21:07,060 --> 01:21:04,550
one-hour television episode and then

1846
01:21:09,790 --> 01:21:07,070
also maybe honing it even a little more

1847
01:21:12,580 --> 01:21:09,800
tightly I have new interviews to add in

1848
01:21:17,669 --> 01:21:12,590
with Mike Rogers we have some footage of

1849
01:21:23,250 --> 01:21:17,679
Philip Glass very interesting calling

1850
01:21:25,630 --> 01:21:23,260
calling Mike goddamn liar yeah on

1851
01:21:29,919 --> 01:21:25,640
national television on Larry King right

1852
01:21:31,990 --> 01:21:29,929
which is wonderful we have Don Walton

1853
01:21:35,020 --> 01:21:32,000
Travis's older brother and I have deputy

1854
01:21:36,700 --> 01:21:35,030
Ellison and Leo sprinkle tentative in I

1855
01:21:39,580 --> 01:21:36,710
was able to get these additional

1856
01:21:41,530 --> 01:21:39,590
interviews so I am reworking the film as

1857
01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:41,540
you saw last night we showed a film with

1858
01:21:47,140 --> 01:21:44,330
some CGI in it I am making a new piece

1859
01:21:52,300 --> 01:21:47,150
that will be exclusive for television

1860
01:21:54,520 --> 01:21:52,310
and for possibly some art houses or what

1861
01:21:56,830 --> 01:21:54,530
they call for wall distribution yeah I'd

1862
01:21:59,800 --> 01:21:56,840
like to distribute it in a major way as

1863
01:22:03,280 --> 01:21:59,810
a businessperson it's logical that I

1864
01:22:05,140 --> 01:22:03,290
want to be able to repay myself with the

1865
01:22:06,470 --> 01:22:05,150
outlay and the investment I put into

1866
01:22:08,330 --> 01:22:06,480
making the film

1867
01:22:12,340 --> 01:22:08,340
so that I can make other films in the

1868
01:22:15,500 --> 01:22:12,350
future so my goal is to market the film

1869
01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:15,510
nationally internationally and then

1870
01:22:22,820 --> 01:22:18,810
eventually release this newer exclusive

1871
01:22:27,020 --> 01:22:22,830
version on probably Vimeo and Netflix

1872
01:22:31,970 --> 01:22:27,030
Apple TV Hulu and and DVD as well that

1873
01:22:33,710 --> 01:22:31,980
will still be around and my goal is that

1874
01:22:36,440 --> 01:22:33,720
more and more people around the world

1875
01:22:38,570 --> 01:22:36,450
know this story because I think it is a

1876
01:22:40,430 --> 01:22:38,580
human interest story and it explains

1877
01:22:42,860 --> 01:22:40,440
what it's like what you go through when

1878
01:22:44,420 --> 01:22:42,870
you have this experience and over 50

1879
01:22:47,540 --> 01:22:44,430
percent of the world's population has

1880
01:22:50,960 --> 01:22:47,550
seen something so I think there's a

1881
01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:50,970
market for it I agree and you know the

1882
01:22:55,280 --> 01:22:53,130
percentage probably is going up and up

1883
01:22:59,600 --> 01:22:55,290
it's that challenge we always have of

1884
01:23:01,550 --> 01:22:59,610
people reporting it so where can we find

1885
01:23:04,760 --> 01:23:01,560
out more about the cop there's a great

1886
01:23:07,280 --> 01:23:04,770
website Travis Walton the movie.com you

1887
01:23:09,500 --> 01:23:07,290
can go there there's also the trailer is

1888
01:23:11,450 --> 01:23:09,510
on YouTube you can you know google

1889
01:23:13,430 --> 01:23:11,460
Travis Walton and movie.com you'll get

1890
01:23:15,410 --> 01:23:13,440
right to the trailer there's a lot of

1891
01:23:18,710 --> 01:23:15,420
insight and background information at

1892
01:23:20,450 --> 01:23:18,720
the website photos of our shading and

1893
01:23:22,490 --> 01:23:20,460
I'm looking for testimonials as well

1894
01:23:24,050 --> 01:23:22,500
from from anyone of course I'm looking

1895
01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:24,060
for important people I've just gotten a

1896
01:23:29,720 --> 01:23:26,970
wonderful one from Paul Hellyer the

1897
01:23:31,850 --> 01:23:29,730
former Defence Minister of Canada well

1898
01:23:33,140 --> 01:23:31,860
who has seen the film and really liked

1899
01:23:35,510 --> 01:23:33,150
it and contacted me

1900
01:23:37,910 --> 01:23:35,520
so I'm collecting testimonials I have a

1901
01:23:39,920 --> 01:23:37,920
great testimonial from Edgar Mitchell as

1902
01:23:41,750 --> 01:23:39,930
well which is really about activity and

1903
01:23:46,010 --> 01:23:41,760
mr. Mitchell's been a friend for many

1904
01:23:49,250 --> 01:23:46,020
years so I'm trying to use the social

1905
01:23:51,470 --> 01:23:49,260
media as best I can to get the word out

1906
01:23:53,450 --> 01:23:51,480
there and I'm really interested in the

1907
01:23:55,550 --> 01:23:53,460
public communicating with me and letting

1908
01:23:58,250 --> 01:23:55,560
me know what they think I'm interested

1909
01:24:01,130 --> 01:23:58,260
in doing screenings if I can I'll Drive

1910
01:24:02,660 --> 01:24:01,140
anywhere and you know 5060 hundred mile

1911
01:24:06,890 --> 01:24:02,670
radius to Philadelphia I'll do a

1912
01:24:08,480 --> 01:24:06,900
screening I'll show up and talk so I'm

1913
01:24:11,270 --> 01:24:08,490
just hoping to continue to get the word

1914
01:24:15,650 --> 01:24:11,280
out there because it helps Travis and it

1915
01:24:17,930 --> 01:24:15,660
helps expand our awareness as human

1916
01:24:18,590 --> 01:24:17,940
beings I think it begins to open our

1917
01:24:20,690 --> 01:24:18,600
consciousness

1918
01:24:22,760 --> 01:24:20,700
to the seriousness and the reality I

1919
01:24:25,100 --> 01:24:22,770
mean what we know now how many planets

1920
01:24:27,500 --> 01:24:25,110
are potentially life and happening

1921
01:24:29,660 --> 01:24:27,510
planets that grow Sun is with with you

1922
01:24:33,170 --> 01:24:29,670
know planets orbiting them as we begin

1923
01:24:35,810 --> 01:24:33,180
to grow more and more in our awareness I

1924
01:24:38,120 --> 01:24:35,820
think this film will only help in what's

1925
01:24:39,520 --> 01:24:38,130
that website again Travis Walton the

1926
01:24:41,420 --> 01:24:39,530
movie.com

1927
01:24:43,370 --> 01:24:41,430
well we look forward to hearing the

1928
01:24:46,190 --> 01:24:43,380
progress of the film and we're just so

1929
01:24:49,550 --> 01:24:46,200
happy to see the UFO field thriving with

1930
01:24:51,260 --> 01:24:49,560
credible well made films like this so

1931
01:24:53,690 --> 01:24:51,270
thank you both of you for inviting me

1932
01:24:56,030 --> 01:24:53,700
last night for being with us here today

1933
01:24:58,100 --> 01:24:56,040
and again we look forward to what comes

1934
01:25:00,530 --> 01:24:58,110
next for a trip for the film and for

1935
01:25:02,450 --> 01:25:00,540
Travis Walton himself as he continues to

1936
01:25:05,000 --> 01:25:02,460
search for answers so thank you so much

1937
01:25:05,990 --> 01:25:05,010
for joining us thank you thank you for

1938
01:25:11,900 --> 01:25:06,000
doing what you're doing

1939
01:25:13,790 --> 01:25:11,910
oh alright that's it for this week's

1940
01:25:16,730 --> 01:25:13,800
episode thank you again to Jennifer and

1941
01:25:19,130 --> 01:25:16,740
Peter for coming on the show again the

1942
01:25:21,920 --> 01:25:19,140
film can be purchased at Travis Walton

1943
01:25:23,510 --> 01:25:21,930
the movie.com if you'd like to help

1944
01:25:26,270 --> 01:25:23,520
support somewhere in the skies and

1945
01:25:29,480 --> 01:25:26,280
receive rewards such as bonus episodes

1946
01:25:31,970 --> 01:25:29,490
content Skype panel discussions or to be

1947
01:25:34,370 --> 01:25:31,980
a guest or co-host on the show please

1948
01:25:37,040 --> 01:25:34,380
consider becoming a patron subscriber

1949
01:25:40,850 --> 01:25:37,050
today to learn more and to subscribe

1950
01:25:42,950 --> 01:25:40,860
visit patreon.com slash somewhere skies

1951
01:25:45,290 --> 01:25:42,960
you can follow us on twitter at

1952
01:25:48,050 --> 01:25:45,300
somewhere skies and on instagram at

1953
01:25:50,630 --> 01:25:48,060
somewhere sky's pot to listen to past

1954
01:25:53,390 --> 01:25:50,640
episodes read articles or to contact me

1955
01:25:55,520 --> 01:25:53,400
personally with your stories visit the

1956
01:25:58,370 --> 01:25:55,530
official website somewhere in the skies

1957
01:26:00,650 --> 01:25:58,380
calm i'll see you here next week and

1958
01:26:03,440 --> 01:26:00,660
remember keep your feet on the ground

1959
01:26:04,550 --> 01:26:03,450
but never stop searching somewhere in

1960
01:26:15,770 --> 01:26:04,560
the skies

1961
01:26:17,689 --> 01:26:15,780
Third Kind productions in association

1962
01:26:19,490 --> 01:26:17,699
with the entertainment one podcast